Sorry this is a day old fellas just got my computer back up and running had a trojan horse virus man what a mess>>>>
Anyway what did u fellas think about congress and the Petraus hearing, I knew that was exactly what he would say, know no fist a cuffs just civilized conversation not trying to get things heated, i just think it is funny that hearing was a joke.... I could have done that speech heck a monkey with a banana could have done it
we waited all summer for that, we knew what he was going to say. __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 12 Sep 2007 16:34
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I heard the dems were giving him heck which I think is dumb since he's just reporting what the score is, he's not running for office. The dems should save their anger for other politicians. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 12 Sep 2007 18:26
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Tim, you are LYING. EVERYONE was asking him difficult questions because that is what adults do when lives are on the line.
Don't pretend its "the Democrats vs. the General". The Republicans questioned him just as harshly, as well they should have. John Warner had the sound byte of the day:
Quote: And Sen. John Warner (R-Va.), the former chairman of the Armed Services Committee and a former secretary of the Navy, sharply dismissed Crocker's talk of reaching a national reconciliation in Iraq.
"That's what's been said at this table for a long time, sir," Warner said. "And ... it hasn't happened."
Warner, one of the Senate's most influential policymakers when it comes to the military, urged Petraeus to tell the president if he disagrees with him on his strategy.
"I hope in the recesses of your heart," Warner said, "that you know that strategy will continue the casualties, stress on our forces, stress on military families, stress on all Americans."
Finally, Warner concluded with a question: "Are you able to say at this time, if we continue what you have laid before the Congress here as a strategy, do you feel that that is making America safer?"
Petraeus said the strategy is the best course for achieving U.S. objectives in Iraq.
"Does that make America safer?" pushed Warner.
Said Petraeus, "Sir, I don't know, actually. I have not sat down and sorted it out in my own mind."
Stop being such a partisan hack!! This is important business, not the O'Reily Factor.
Posted: 13 Sep 2007 07:44
zod69
he just repeated the same things Bush and co. have been saying for months. they did this segment on the Daily Show and it showed clips of bush and cheney saying the exact same things Petraeus basically said. almost word for word. can you spell: L-A-C-K-E-Y. and i loved how the Reps were describing him. you'd think he was the second coming of Jesus. yes, as usual the reps have their heads up their asses. they really thought that he was some savior who was gonna salvage this war for them. you americans watch way too much TV. he ain't Rambo.
Posted: 13 Sep 2007 15:16
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Quote: Tim, you are LYING.
Isn't it true you are lying about my lying. Isn't it also true I stated for the record that I had heard the dems were giving him a hard time not that I had witnessed such.
Regardless no one should be offensive toward the General. Hard questions are one thing, but don't make it into a war of words for someone wanting to just report facts.
Quote: you americans watch way too much TV. he ain't Rambo.
I would say you Canadains watch just as much television as Americans especially in those long winters.
What else you got to do, ice fish all winter long?
If I was a general getting asked the same questions over and over again, I probably say the same things over and over again. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 13 Sep 2007 18:23
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Quote: Isn't it also true I stated for the record that I had heard the dems were giving him a hard time not that I had witnessed such.
So is this the admission that will finally solve where you get this crap? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't arrive at your conclusions independently- you just pass along whatever you have heard. That's what I'm getting here.
If that is the case, you need to do more than watch one biased news channel. Because if YOU weren't trying to change the focus from the real issue (surge hasn't worked) to another partisan attack on the D's, then THEY were.
You're the liar or you've been lied to- congrats.
Posted: 13 Sep 2007 19:25
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Man fellas i just asked your AMERICAN opinion nothing to get all upset about, look im in too and i'm not happy about it either, at least my old company is going to afgahnistan, i was just wondering what you AMERICANS, thought about the situation no need for name calling and hate, hate the situation not the man... __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 13 Sep 2007 19:34
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Quote: The dems should save their anger for other politicians.
I agree he is just doing his job, believe me ALL the politicians are tying our Generals hands.... Let US run the war not some senator who is miles away, this would have been over a while back, good thing i'm not a General MOAB,MOAB, here we come, Petraus is a four star of course he doesn't want to look bad,but with the senate tying their hands, heck look at Tommy Franks in my opinion he was a damn good General...But no George had to tye his hands as well then they wondered why Franks retired i would have too. Me personally I dont think the white house, senate,blah blah blah should get involved just approve the money and let US blow up some stuff,case closed war over in two months __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 13 Sep 2007 19:58
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Quote: but you don't arrive at your conclusions independently- you just pass along whatever you have heard.
No, but if I say I heard something, that means I just heard it somewhere, but might not be completely sure of where, and for the record I have more sources than Fox News although I don't see what the big deal is with libs and Fox news. I guess it makes you mad that they don't foam at the mouth at every mention of Bush.
Quote: just approve the money and let US blow up some stuff,case closed war over in two months
Ok. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 14 Sep 2007 06:53
zod69
lol. we ski and play hockey tim. and go tobaggoning. i don't fish anymore. only if i needed to in order to survive. you know from my other posts how i feel about animals.
Posted: 14 Sep 2007 15:35
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I like to fish, but the fish are all contaminated and I don't like to fish and throw them back in. Stupid pollution.
Hockey would kill me. Too much gear and I'd fall flat on my back. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 14 Sep 2007 19:28
zod69
tim, do you watch hockey? are you in Atlanta? if so, do you ever go see the Thrashers play?
Posted: 14 Sep 2007 20:46
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No hockey watching, I'm in TN, I don't watch sports much on TV. I like to play a lot more than I like to watch. I get bored watching other people have fun. Never heard of the Thrashers.
Actually the last sports team I've watched on a regular basis was the bulls. I'm a big fan of Michael Jordan. Jordan was cool. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 18 Sep 2007 11:01
zod69
Posted: 19 Sep 2007 18:59
Captain America
Problem was Petraeus was presenting a White House-scripted report, so he comes off as a cunny-little lackey.
I'm sure he'll have criticisms for the Bushies after he retires, when it's too late.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 01:30
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Quote: I'm sure he'll have criticisms for the Bushies after he retires, when it's too late
All Generals do because they tie their hands(no surprise)one word look below __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 12:54
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I do think its interesting that, if he had come back with a bleak outlook and a 'runaway!' mentality, the left would have talked about how 'courageous' he was9see Colin Powell for a good example, the only time they lionized him was when his opinion ran contrary to Bush's). But since he didn't say what they wanted to hear, he's a 'mouthpiece' spitting out 'marching orders that require 'the suspension of disbelief'. I found his assessment to be very realistic, not overly optimistic, but not pessimistic. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 15:40
Captain America
No, Colin Powell played the good soldier when he worked for the Bushies, and criticized them and himself for playing along after he left the administration and it was too late. He said he wasn't sure about the run-up to the war, but didn't express that to the public when it mattered.
The good soldier schtick is crap: Back your country, not your boss and/or party. It proved wrong in Vietnam, and it's proved wrong again.
Petraeus showed himself to be a tool when he wrote a sunny Iraq OpEd right before the 2004 election. Complete tool: a politician in a soldier's uniform.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 16:51
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Thank you for proving my point for me. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 17:01
Captain America
My point was that Colin Powell did not make his real views known when it could've had changed going to war in Iraq.
From the Times of London:
In July 2007 Powell revealed that he spent two-and-half hours trying to persuade George W. Bush not to invade Iraq but that he did not prevail upon the U.S. President. At the Aspen Ideas Festival in Colorado Powell stated, "I tried to avoid this war. I took him [Bush] through the consequences of going into an Arab country and becoming the occupiers.
Now, does that kind of politics anger me? Yes.
Take your snark elsewhere or address the issue.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 15:28
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I guess my point is that there is a chance that Petraeus's opinion is his own, and happens to agree with the general direction that the President was already leaning towards. I see nothing in the man's past to inidcate he's a political shill or would dishonor himself by parroting a White House script. You may want to assign those qualities to him, but I'm not willing to unless I saw some reason to, and so far I haven't. If he had come out saying "We need to leave right now! Before lunch!" I would hope I would have been intellectually honest enough to defend him the way I am now. A lot of people on the right wouldn't be, but unfortunately, that's the nature of the beast.
I think Colin Powell (with whom I disagree frequently) deserves a lot more credit for being a man of courage that he may ever get. I think the cowards way out if you truly disagreed with the war would be to be a 'yes man' and not speak up. (and I am sure there were plenty of those) It takes courage to raise your hand at the meeting and tell the boss that there might be a better way. So for Powell to privately try to persuade the President that this might not be the best course of action was the proper course of action. But if you can't persudae a man in private, you certainly aren't going to persuade him by blasting him in public. You are a Presidential advisor, and your job is to advise. You give your input, you make your case and then the El Jefe makes the decision.
Hopefully that was a snark-free reply, whatever snark means. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 16:28
Captain America
In 2004, just before the election, Petraeus wrote an OpEd that basically parroted administration talking points, many of which proved to be dead wrong.
This report was a hair more realistic. He is a politician in a soldier's uniform.
And the surveys say the American public ain't buying it.
As far as Powell, if he really felt this was the wrong course of action, you don't go to the UN and make the argument. It wasn't about persuading Bush, because he and Cheney and the neocons had been pushing for war with Iraq for years before (Paul Wolfowitz had said in early 2001 that they needed a Pearl Harbor). But it was about informing the American people, who were (wrongfully) trusting their government to tell them the truth.
It was war, not some minor policy tweak or a blow-job. It was war, where people die, are crippled and have their lives permanently altered in large numbers. For people to come out afterward and say, "I told them so" is heinous. Powell should have told the American people and the world.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 16:39
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Quote: He is a politician in a soldier's uniform.
Once again, I'm not willing to assign those qualities to him.
But I am interested to see where you think the demarcation line is on opinions. How do you know the op-ed wasn't really his opinion? What makes you characterize it as 'talking points'?
As far as Powell going to the U.N., you may have a point. I'm not sure how I personally would have handled that. Should Powell have resigned rather than be a front-man for a case he didn't believe in? Maybe. Or maybe there is a difference between believing that Iraq had WMD's and believing that the military solution is the best one to deal with said WMDs. I don't calim to have any insight into Mr. Powells rationalization on the issue. Like I said, interesting point. I guess I'll have to ask him the next we play mini putt-putt together. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Regardless no one should be offensive toward the General. Hard questions are one thing, but don't make it into a war of words for someone wanting to just report facts.
What else you got to do, ice fish all winter long?
and go tobaggoning.
