You see all things are subjective to liberals and all things are right except for Christianity and conservatism which is always wrong to them. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 19:27
Captain America
At least we believe in math.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 22:48
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Right, but you guys aren't exactly above creative means of making things come out your way, and it is true you all are in favor of the whole truth is relative thing. The above video just illustrates how silly that idea could be sometimes. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Sep 2007 23:11
Captain America
Everyone seems to use creative means to make points.
But when have I stretched truth here?
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 00:42
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Why is this liberals vs Christians again? That's really like Raiders fans vs Bulls fans. C'mon already. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 15:43
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Quote: Why is this liberals vs Christians again? That's really like Raiders fans vs Bulls fans.
Quote: Everyone seems to use creative means to make points.
These two liberals seem pretty rational to me; clever even.
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 18:31
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Quote: These two liberals seem pretty rational to me; clever even.
I suppose being a liberal helps you speak liberalese with not as much difficulty. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 19:06
Captain America
No, it helps us see things as they really are and make the occasional informed comment.
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 19:45
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Right like all things are right as long as it feels good and isn't Christian or Conservative of course. Can't have absolutes in our lives. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 20:03
Captain America
When I have ever taken a if-it-feels-good-do-it stance? You love to blast me with your demented and cliched perceptions of what you think liberals are about, but never back it up.
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 20:08
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I can only go on what liberal leaders usually stand for. You say you believe in liberalism then I assume you go their way. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 21 Sep 2007 20:32
Captain America
Has any of the democratic presidential hopefuls given a "if it feels good do it" speech.
Hell, if anything, Bush has been the chief of that. Telling Americans the way to help the war effort is to shop, and that America sacrifice by watching TV. Seriously … and you defend this irresponsible asshole.
Posted: 22 Sep 2007 16:28
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So wait a minute, you mean to tell me that liberals don't believe that folks should live exactly the way they want to regardless of the consequences as long as it feels right to them?
So there should be some limits to how people live their lives morally then?
Quote: Hell, if anything, Bush has been the chief of that.
So it feels good for conservative for us to be in Iraq??????????? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 22 Sep 2007 16:55
Captain America
Quote: So it feels good for conservative for us to be in Iraq???????????
Hey, chickenhawk, I wasn't the one ginning up for a war in Iraq and the subsequent occupation. So there are many who are happy, and many of them are making money hand over fist. So, you tell me.
What I meant is that Bush has tried from the beginning to play this war off as something the people don't need to be concerned with, because he's in charge and everything's OK as long as folks go along with him.
Quote: So wait a minute, you mean to tell me that liberals don't believe that folks should live exactly the way they want to regardless of the consequences as long as it feels right to them?
Not exactly, but many liberals hold the same values in regard to individual liberties: As long as people pay their taxes and obey laws that impact other people, what someone does in their own house with consenting adults is their own business.
Plus, don't you think it's weird to have laws about ass-sex and oral sex on the books? Another conservative legacy some seek to uphold.
Posted: 23 Sep 2007 21:15
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Quote: What I meant is that Bush has tried from the beginning to play this war off as something the people don't need to be concerned with, because he's in charge and everything's OK as long as folks go along with him.
Ok chicken little.
Quote: what someone does in their own house with consenting adults is their own business.
Well what about when they try to make those individuals who choose to do weird things in their home into heroes, and then try to make it a hate crime to say it's wrong, and try to change marriage laws, and then try to put curriculm in California schools promoting that kind of lifestyle? That's when I start getting upset. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 03:04
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Quote: try to make those individuals who choose to do weird things in their home into heroes
What?
Quote: try to make it a hate crime to say it's wrong
You still don't know what a hate crime is or how your group tops the list on that bill you rail against?
You should be upset. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 19:22
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I'm referring to the movement to make what is said in pulpits as hate speech if a pastor preaching against gayness. It's already happened in other countries like Canada. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 19:52
Captain America
Quote: Quote:
try to make those individuals who choose to do weird things in their home into heroes
What?
Yeah … what?
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 20:55
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The pastor who says being gay is a sin is preaching, well within his rights to do with anyone willing to sit and listen.
You can go to a gay community, walk up to a complete stranger and say they're a sinner. Still not a hate crime.
Bludgeoning someone with a baseball bat til they're dead is still not a hate crime. Preceding that act, where any sort of evidence can be shown that it was done for the exact reasons of 'hate', then becomes a hate crime.
So, this would mean that the perpetrator got witnessed by a person or some sort of recording device saying things against the victim's race, religion, apparent sexual preference etc or some display of an equally heinous measure that shows similar intent(smearing lipstick on a gay guy, painting a black man's face white, painting a swastika on a synagogue or peeing on a statue of the virign Mary, etc).
This is done as an extra deterrent to 'haters'. This isn't making any of the 'protected' groups heroic by any measure and I would remind you that any expression of hate toward religion is first on the list of that bill-making you and your fellow evangelicals first benefactors.
Quote: I'm referring to the movement
Why do I get this sinking feeling you're opposed to all movement? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 22:26
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Quote: The pastor who says being gay is a sin is preaching, well within his rights to do with anyone willing to sit and listen.
You can go to a gay community, walk up to a complete stranger and say they're a sinner. Still not a hate crime.
Well finally we agree on something.
Quote: Bludgeoning someone with a baseball bat til they're dead is still not a hate crime.
I wouldn't call it a love crime.
Quote: Why do I get this sinking feeling you're opposed to all movement
Moving for the sake of moving doesn't make it a beneficial. Only moving in the right direction is worth the trip. It's like taking a vacation that ends up sucking worse than staying home and costing a 1000 dollars. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 22:27
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Quote: Yeah … what?
Yeah, what, what...what? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 22:29
Captain America
Quote: try to make those individuals who choose to do weird things in their home into heroes
What does that mean?
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 22:37
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In california, there was a movement to put gay curriculm into the school systems which included adding so-called gay historical figures. i don't know about you, but if somebody invented a better mousetrap, that's all I need my kid to know. Kids don't need to know what that fella did when they weren't working. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 22:47
Captain America
Please supply links. I'd like to read about it to make up my own mind.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 23:04 Last Edited By: Tim
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Do a web search under "california gay curriculm" in Yahoo you'll see all kinds of links from the Christian and the gay perspective. There's quite a few links it looks like. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 23:11
Captain America
I think that mentioning sexual orientation is OK if their orientation had bearing on their achievements. If not, why bring it up?
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 23:49
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From Gay.com:
Quote: The California Senate approved a bill Thursday to include the contributions of gay men and lesbians in social-science curricula in public schools.
The 22-15 vote broke down mainly along party lines, with Democrats in favor and Republicans opposed. The bill now goes to the state Assembly.
Sen. Sheila Kuehl, D-Santa Monica, authored the bill to get schools to adopt age-appropriate study of LGBT accomplishments.
"The invisibility of LGBT people in history materials in schools exacerbates already hostile school climates in which homophobic bullying, harassment and violence are rampant. Studies show that a bias-free and LGBT-inclusive curriculum fosters tolerance, resulting in greater feelings of student safety and less bullying of students who are perceived to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender," Kuehl said in a written statement.
"Today's vote brings us one step closer to our goal of safe schools for all children, and I am very grateful that so many of my colleagues in the California Senate saw the pressing need for this bill," the lesbian senator added.
"All students deserve to learn history from a fair and balanced perspective," said Geoffrey Kors, executive director of Equality California. The bill "permits teachers to use their discretion and develop age-appropriate materials within the social-science curriculum," Kors noted.
From the Christian Post:
Quote: A controversial legislation, nicknamed the “sexual indoctrination bill” by some conservative groups, that would ban bias against homosexuals, transgenders, and bisexuals at public school passed the California Assembly Judiciary Committee on Tuesday morning.
Related
Homosexual Curriculum Bill Passed by Calif. Senate
Senate Bill 777 (S.B. 777), which already has passed the state Senate, was passed by a 7-3 vote along party lines and, should it go into law, would prohibit textbooks, instructors, and classes from teaching anything that "reflects or promotes bias against" those perceived with gender issues.
Christian groups have been concerned about the bill since it would force the school systems to positively portray non-traditional lifestyles to children who attend California schools. They feel that their children should have a right to disagree, however.
"S.B. 777 is an astounding assault on traditional values in California, especially for religious students," explained Karen England, executive director of Capitol Resource Institute (CRI), in a statement. "These types of laws that favor someone simply because of their sexual orientation will inevitably result in reverse discrimination against religious students."
All 7 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee voted to move S.B. 777 along onto the Assembly floor while all 3 Republicans voted against it.
The bill’s author, Sen. Sheila Kuehl (D-Santa Monica), argues that the bill will give homosexuals and other alternative students equal rights and protect them from being persecuted in school. She also explained that the bill has been revised so it is not prejudiced toward another group in the process.
Several pro-family groups feel that the bill will only improperly move harassment onto religious students at school, however. They argue that there are better ways to reduce the persecution towards homosexuals without involving the legislation system.
"Proponents of this bill claim that it is necessary to end bullying. In fact, S.B. 777 will not end bullying, it will instead confuse students at an already confusing time in their adolescence," stated Meredith Turney, legislative liaison for CRI who spoke in front of the committee. "We wholeheartedly believe that any bullying and taunting, regardless of the motivation, should be punished. The best way to deal with bullying in schools is to restore classroom discipline. Passing more laws that discriminate against religious students will not end bullying or discrimination."
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 24 Sep 2007 23:57
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I'll say it. It's another waste of time.
Pointing out figures from history that loved people from the same sex or men that dressed in women's clothes is not going to stop kids from picking on other kids. It's dumb to believe otherwise. The supposed reason for the bill is self-defeating in my eyes. There will still be bullies and swirlies and wedgies every form of school torment that's been around in schools since they created schools-welcome to the American dream. To be even they would have to now point out the hetero heroes-dumb dumb dumb.
As for the Christian post report; they're almost as asinine for saying it's discriminate against religious students. Equally dumb dumb dumb. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 25 Sep 2007 00:19 Last Edited By: Tim
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Quote: As for the Christian post report; they're almost as asinine for saying it's discriminate against religious students. Equally dumb dumb dumb.
I thought we were agreeing till you said that. You have to think about it from the other side. As a Christian we see it as sin. You don't glorify a sin, and it's likely that if a Christian kid were to say something they would get knocked down by the establishment. That's all it's saying I think. It's just a feeling of being surrounded by political correctness gone mad. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 25 Sep 2007 00:22
Captain America
Quote: Christian we see it as sin.
But if a gay student knocked the Christian student, the result should be the same.
