Quote: A Walmart store announcement ordering black people to leave brought chagrin and apologies Wednesday from leaders of the company, which has built a fragile trust among minority communities.
A male voice came over the public-address system Sunday evening at a store in Washington Township, in southern New Jersey, and calmly announced: "Attention, Walmart customers: All black people, leave the store now."
Shoppers in the store at the time said a manager quickly got on the public-address system and apologized for the remark. And while it was unclear whether a rogue patron or an employee was responsible for the comment, many customers expressed their anger to store management.
"I want to know why such statements are being made, because it flies in the face of what we teach our children about tolerance for all," said Sheila Ellington, who was in the store at the time with a friend. "If this was meant to be a prank, there's only one person laughing, and it's not either one of us."
Ellington, of Monroe, and her friend Patricia Covington said they plan to boycott the retailer until they're assured the issue has been addressed so it doesn't happen again.
The pair said they were stunned when they heard the announcement and initially believed they had misheard it. But once the words sank in, they grew angry.
"I depended on Walmart for all my needs, because the store has pretty much everything you could want," Covington said. "But until this issue is addressed in a way I'm comfortable with, I can't walk through those doors again."
Officials with Wal-Mart Stores Inc., based in Bentonville, Ark., said that the announcement was "unacceptable" and that they're trying to determine who made it and how it happened.
Opinion: Not a nice thing to say granted. But surely you'd think these customers would realize that Walmart didn't pay somebody to actually say that on the intercom system.
Surely they would also realize it was more than likely some stupid kid or adult who never grew up just seeing if he could get a rise out of people. The more it upsets people the more this guy is laughing his head off.
So why make a big deal about it? That's what the dude was going for, and bonus for him if he's an angry employee, ex employee, customer, and he's made these people mad at a national franchise over what a single person said.
Lastly, just for perspective what if a voice came over the intercom and calmly said all white people leave now in a Eddie Murphy voice? People would laugh their heads off. I think sometimes we all just need a sense of humor. Laugh and then smack this guy upside the head like Moe slapping Curly. Problem solved. No need to boycott Walmart for all eternity. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 19 Mar 2010 18:41
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
Well...as far as "people being outraged" there is always someone to get outraged about something, no matter how small, insignificant or pointless. I doubt the majority of customers were like, "Oh my goodness! I must call the media!" but when someone did, and they showed up a couple of people made their statements and got their 15 minutes of fame.
As to the comment about all white people being commanded to leave the store. We would laugh at that, mostly because of what sociologists call privledge. We know someone won't kick us out of a store, so much like a man in a dress, we find the juxtoposition of someone asking white people to leave hillarious. Since such a thing is still very conceiveable to people who aren't white it's a lot less funny.
It's sort of how if you tell a story about your failed drunken attempts to drive yourself home (say you realized you were in the back seat when you woke up the next day and had torn the heck out of the drivers seat infront of you where you kept inserting you key trying to get it to turn over) it's funny until one of the party guests mentions that their sister was just run over by a drunk driver the night before.
Humour is about perspective, and some things aren't funny because they are in fact true. Drunks do try to get behind the wheel, and sometimes they succeed. And sometimes, people do try to run african americans out of their places of business, so it's not so funny when someone makes a joke about it.
Posted: 19 Mar 2010 19:35
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
No argument with anything stated, but one thing has to be addressed.
Should Walmart be the ones charged with racism, if that charge is actually applicable? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 21 Mar 2010 03:09
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
Well since racism isn't a legal charge, Walmart isn't actually being charged with anything.
Someone has been arrested for the bias incident, but it doesn't seem to be related to the company.
Posted: 22 Mar 2010 11:27 Last Edited By: pakratmak
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
A 16-year-old boy was busted for broadcasting a racist comment over the public address system of a Walmart in southern New Jersey, police said Saturday.
The youth - whose name was not released because of his age - was charged with harassment and bias intimidation...
"Bias intimidation"...BS euphamism for bloating the case to a hate crime.
I'm now officially inspired to make a YouTube vid. This is too stupid to pass up. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 23 Mar 2010 16:32
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
Well, how is it not bias intimidation?
How is it not someone trying to worry, frieghten or bother someone else based on their race?
Yeah it's easy to blow it off as a joke, but said jokes tend to come places of real racism, and had the kid wrote his statement on the side of the wall at Walmart how would it not be just as much an attempt at intimidation?
You can call it a joke, but that's likely because you've never really experienced discrimination. Hate crimes are crimes because they hurt society as a whole and not just the individual. A kid who puts out the idea that such racist "games" are harmless hurts society.
It's not like the kid will get life for it, but he should be prosecuted, and given his community service. Just as he would for painting swastikas sround town.
Posted: 23 Mar 2010 17:01
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: How is it not someone trying to worry, frieghten or bother someone else based on their race?
You don't find it funny that we have not gotten word on whether or not the offender is black and when directly asked, reporters are told 'it doesn't matter'? Something small blown out of proportion to make it 'newsworthy' is not exactly new to the news. Until we see other evidence that supports this being anything more than a prank, I believe we are just wasting time on this being anything more.
Quote: had the kid wrote his statement on the side of the wall
He didn't. Even if he had, why use such a relatively respectful term like black people instead of some sort of acial racial epithet?
Quote: that's likely because you've never really experienced discrimination.
That's a huge assumption on your part and you couldn't be more wrong. Being one of only three white kids in an all black school growing up says I have a better perspective on racism than most. What exactly gives you the impression that you have the inside track on racial issues exactly?
Quote: A kid who puts out the idea that such racist "games" are harmless hurts society.
I would so vote for you now just because you run on this platform. Seriously out of proportion on this one boss.
Quote: It's not like the kid will get life for it, but he should be prosecuted, and given his community service. Just as he would for painting swastikas sround town.
I would have gone with a day in court before sentencing but hey, knock yourself out. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 25 Mar 2010 17:50
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
Well on the subject of conviction before sentencing, we can't really say what is out of proportion.
And that's the thing. In sentencing we can get all about nuance and intent, and figure out if it's a public lashing with a wet noodle, or soemthing more intense.
You do kind of have to take this kind of thing seriously, because it does feed into a societal meme of racism is o.k.
You know the "boy just being a boy" argument only holds water if it's your boy being the boy. If your the one on the receiving end of their vandalism, intimidation, or criminality it's not quite so fun.
And that's the point, when an incident like this occurs the state can either, let it go, and give the impression that it will let other greater racial intimidation incidents go. Or it can approach it and prosecute it appropriatly.
As to your discrimination, what you need to understand is that being discriminated against when your white is a rare situational occurance. When your black the issue is far more pervasive. So as discriminated as you may have felt in school for being in the minority, outside of that world the privledge of whiteness was still given to you.
It's a privledge that you likely don't even recognize because you have never been pulled over for a DWB (driving while black), or stopped for a WWB (walking while black). You likely don't even think such things occur, and that is what the privledge of whiteness gives you.
When someone says over the loud speaker "all whites must leave wallmart" you will raise an eyebrow and laugh it off because it is so outside of your perview to aknowledge as anything that could possibly be real, When you're black and you hear something similar, you may realize it's a joke, but it's a joke that hits a little too close to home. It wasn't that long ago that such statements weren't a joke, and there are still many many places where it isn't.
Even if the kid is black, it's important to take the case to it's full extent. If the kid black, and he was trying to say make a statement about walmart. He failed and should be held accountable for the distress he caused. If the kid is white, and was similarly trying to make a statement about walmart, he likewise failed, and should be held accountable for the distress he caused. If he was trying to be a jerk, the same criteria apply.
If you just laugh it off and move on, well there are a number of people who aren't laughing and for whom you have reiterated their fears about the society in which they live.
Posted: 25 Mar 2010 20:21
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: You do kind of have to take this kind of thing seriously, because it does feed into a societal meme of racism is o.k.
Like when(certain)black comedians and musicians use nigga/nigger every ten seconds or so during their material?
Quote: the state can either, let it go, and give the impression that it will let other greater racial intimidation incidents go. Or it can approach it and prosecute it appropriatly.
Or C, other would be entertainers see how quickly they can get attention and devise better ways of not getting caught doing it.
Quote: what you need to understand is that being discriminated against when your white is a rare situational occurance.
Actually, I understand I went through it when most people who speak of these things haven't. Lucky me that it's rare.
Quote: outside of that world the privledge of whiteness was still given to you.
Lucky me again. I had somewhere to escape to. (notice the dripping sarcasm)
Quote: You likely don't even think such things occur, and that is what the privledge of whiteness gives you.
Sure, I'd have no idea what that is like while you are completely inundated by this thing day in and day out, no doubt. I'll ask again where you get your great personal insights from, that at the same time I apparently just don't understand? Better still I should point out you're going to great lengths to salvage something you maybe should just let go at this point. It doesn't get better or more salient or more relevant by covering it in syrup.
Quote: When you're black and you hear something similar, you may realize it's a joke, but it's a joke that hits a little too close to home.
This is starting to sound more like white guilt or the equivalent of a white guy trying to 'prove' he's not racist by pointing out how many of em they have as friends. Much more so than any actual comment that was made.
Quote: Even if the kid is black, it's important to take the case to it's full extent.
Or Walmart simply rethinks it's accesability to the intercom system and we move on with our days because it's nowhere near as serious as being portrayed and nobody was nearly as offended in reality so much as they saw the cameras and exaggerated, maybe even in the hopes of getting paid for the experience.
Quote: well there are a number of people who aren't laughing and for whom you have reiterated their fears about the society in which they live.
Doubtful.
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Mar 2010 03:08
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
You know what Pak, it's not worth debating with you.
Posted: 26 Mar 2010 04:58
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Care to share why? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Mar 2010 14:51
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Well Matches I read one thing you said that I want to address. You said something about white people being privileged and black people actually having to deal with being kicked out of an establishment.
I think it's important to note if you are black these days there is a good chance you've never experienced anything like that. At least if you've been born in the last 30 years. I guess in all fairness I could see old timers getting really offended, but I still think in perspective 99 percent of people regardless of their race should see the above incident as nothing more than a childish prank.
Seems like at some point black folks should forgive white people for past racism especially white people that were either not born yet or way to young to have participated in the racism they were hit with.
I feel for those living in the 60's I really do, but these days a person is crazy to make a racists statement if they are trying to make a living in this world. In other words racism is sufficiently policed. They don't have to throw 16 year olds under a bus to make a statement. Just my opinion.
I think if society isn't careful they'll go the other way. Eventually white people will be the minority at least according to the documentary shows I've seen about the future. Say about 2050 or so maybe a few years later. I wonder how folks will react then to racism? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 26 Mar 2010 22:06
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
And that Tim. Is privledge. You can't even imagine that it still goes on. That people get pulled over for DWBs.
When you hear about it, you think, well they dressed this way or looked that way, but the fact is it happens more often then you can imagine to just regular joes on the street. It does't make the news, because it's not news. It happens every day, and unless you know african american who will talk to you about it, it's unlikely you'll ever accept its existence.
And that Privledge Pak, is why it's not worth debating. Because if you are stuck in that, there is no way to explain it to you in a way you can accept. We each see the world through our own experience. And if your experience is limited you really have to reach out to understand things beyond that.
Me just telling you these things exist and are real won't convince you of it, any more than someone telling you that God or Faries exist and are real will convince you of that. You have your experience, and that expereince prevents you from comprehending what exists outside of that experience.
Posted: 27 Mar 2010 12:17
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: And if your experience is limited you really have to reach out to understand things beyond that.
My experience is not the one that is limited in this case, considering the way you're going on about this. I am around black people every day. I work for them and with them and I serve them every day. I'm their customer too as I make purchases with the money they pay me back into their businesses. They are my co-workers, customers, neighbors, merchants, clerks and on more than a handful of unfortunate occasions, my opponents. As much as I hate to have to say this considering what it usually actually says; I even have a few black friends as well. Your expertise and insight on this is what again? Something you heard in a news article? Something on Oprah? I have to assume it's not personal experience since I've asked twice and you've avoided answering and it's highly doubtful at this point you have an answer you could provide at all.
This pretense of how bad the poor blacks have it compared to us lucky white folk is an antique. It needs to be updated a bit. If you need a small reminder that things are actually changing, look no further than our Commander in Chief for a little clarity.
Yes, racism still exists and it's a shame and I'll tell you a nasty secret. I have white co-workers and customers that call black people some really horrible names and tell really nasty jokes about them and other varieties of brown people. It's all around me because as a white guy, they just assume I'm on board with it. It's not even a matter of my smiling and nodding and going along with it either. I don't react to it at all above a raised eyebrow, which may in fact be a fault actually, since not saying anything is like a kind of consent. I'm not into parenting adults who should know better however and life here is not an afterschool special; I keep my mouth shut, get paid and go my merry way. Just to be clear, none of that was the nasty secret yet. I know for a fact with YOUR obvious limited exposure to people of color that this may be difficult to come to terms with, however, I must insist, this is the gospel. Ready? Nobody is harsher or more difficult or more unfair to black people than other black people. That's the horrible thing you're not aware of and if you're not around it, you probably won't be convinced it exists. See, as a white guy, I get black people who say similar nasty things about other black people because they also think I'm a part of that program and as a general rule of thumb it's usually far more cruel than the ignorance whites can spout if for no other reason than it's someone telling you what they secretly think of themselves.
If you have any such experience in these matters at all, you've yet to provide actual evidence of it. The puffed up rhetoric has failed to raise what that kid said to anything above a prank, which lest we forget, is what this was supposedly about from the start. THAT'S why this wasn't worth debating and that became the case as soon as you took this imaginary high road of yours, where you are so sensitive to the plight of the African Americans and I just can't see what you see for my mack of experiences. That condescending undertone that's been running rampant throught this thread was not called for either, considering you held no advantaged position over me to do so. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Mar 2010 12:17 Last Edited By: pakratmak
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: And if your experience is limited you really have to reach out to understand things beyond that.
My experience is not the one that is limited in this case, considering the way you're going on about this. I am around black people every day. I work for them and with them and I serve them every day. I'm their customer too as I make purchases with the money they pay me back into their businesses. They are my co-workers, customers, neighbors, merchants, clerks and on more than a handful of unfortunate occasions, my opponents. As much as I hate to have to say this considering what it usually actually says; I even have a few black friends as well. Your expertise and insight on this is what again? Something you heard in a news article? Something on Oprah? I have to assume it's not personal experience since I've asked twice and you've avoided answering and it's highly doubtful at this point you have an answer you could provide at all.
This pretense of how bad the poor blacks have it compared to us lucky white folk is an antique. It needs to be updated a bit. If you need a small reminder that things are actually changing, look no further than our Commander in Chief for a little clarity.
Yes, racism still exists and it's a shame and I'll tell you a nasty secret. I have white co-workers and customers that call black people some really horrible names and tell really nasty jokes about them and other varieties of brown people. It's all around me because as a white guy, they just assume I'm on board with it. It's not even a matter of my smiling and nodding and going along with it either. I don't react to it at all above a raised eyebrow, which may in fact be a fault actually, since not saying anything is like a kind of consent. I'm not into parenting adults who should know better however and life here is not an afterschool special; I keep my mouth shut, get paid and go my merry way. Just to be clear, none of that was the nasty secret yet. I know for a fact with YOUR obvious limited exposure to people of color that this may be difficult to come to terms with, however, I must insist, this is the gospel. Ready? Nobody is harsher or more difficult or more unfair to black people than other black people. That's the horrible thing you're not aware of and if you're not around it, you probably won't be convinced it exists. See, as a white guy, I get black people who say similar nasty things about other black people because they also think I'm a part of that program and as a general rule of thumb it's usually far more cruel than the ignorance whites can spout if for no other reason than it's someone telling you what they secretly think of themselves.
If you have any such experience in these matters at all, you've yet to provide actual evidence of it. The puffed up rhetoric has failed to raise what that kid said to anything above a prank, which lest we forget, is what this was supposedly about from the start. THAT'S why this wasn't worth debating and that became the case as soon as you took this imaginary high road of yours, where you are so sensitive to the plight of the African Americans and I just can't see what you see for my lack of experiences. That condescending undertone that's been running rampant throught this thread was not called for either, considering you held no advantaged position over me to do so. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Mar 2010 23:24 Last Edited By: Matches
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
suffice it to say my experience while not first hand is direct, and correct.
I highly doubt you are close enough to any black person to really know what it is like to be black.
Like I said it's not worth discussing. I don't feel like giving you my bonefides, and really it just reminds me what a childish game it is to debate anything on the internet.
It's fun to wax poetic and philosophical in the intelectual sphere on occasion, and the internet is great for that.
But every so often, like on this issue, you really start to get a little too much outside of a place where I, at least, am comfortable discussing it in those terms.
I won't give more than that, because it's not worth it. Even if I told you how my knowledge is more accurate than the words you've heard in passing from aquaintances and yes even friends, it wouldn't change your world view.
You have allowed the knowledge and people you wish to into your perview, and actively avoided that which you did not.
It isn't worth debating and I wont. You guys feel free to complain about how hard the white man has it in this day and age, I can't.
Posted: 28 Mar 2010 11:58
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: my experience while not first hand is direct, and correct.
Not first hand and direct at the same time is a tough trick. Thank you for the admission just the same.
Quote: I highly doubt you are close enough to any black person to really know what it is like to be black.
Knowing what it's like to be black was never a part of the equation until now. I don't have to know what it's like to be black to be aware of racism, especially being the recipient of it on numerous occasions. I do have firsthand experience of it in several shades and from multiple perspectives. On a seperate note, stating things you couldn't possibly know makes for poor arguments or premises that fail to support an argument.
Quote: it just reminds me what a childish game it is to debate anything on the internet.
That works two ways. Remember that others are dealing with you as well. You've run a gamut of poor tactics in this thread including projection and relying on rhetoric while displaying qualities like denial and arrogance. You've had better moments yourself than this thread.
Quote: Even if I told you how my knowledge is more accurate than the words you've heard in passing from aquaintances and yes even friends, it wouldn't change your world view.
Your knowledge is not accurate in this particular sphere, and this guff about my world view is tedious if for no other reason than you haven't shown how your world view is supposedly superior to mine and instead of offering some evidence of where this supposed knowledge comes from, all you offer is excuses. Just admit you're wrong already, at least to yourself.
Quote: You have allowed the knowledge and people you wish to into your perview, and actively avoided that which you did not.
This is a projection you are guilty of, not me.
Quote: You guys feel free to complain about how hard the white man has it
Cue the violins. Nobody said anything about how bad whites have it or even hinted as much. Feel free to copy and paste where that happened. You're a smart individual Matches and you have a clear understanding of many issues and as an added bonus you articulate yourself very well. You have definitely livened this place up. As much as I disagree with you on some issues(just like so many occasions with Tim), I am glad you're here. It makes it that much more of a shame to see you act as such a poor loser when on the losing end of an argument like this.
You don't want to continue on this? No problem. Moving on. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 05 Apr 2010 17:15
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
Hey Pak;
Just for the record, and I don't wish to continue on in this line, but I felt I probably do owe you an explaination, and that I should resolve this before continuing on with this board.
My not first hand but direct experience with the lives of black folks come from living in a highly multi racial family. Not only are my wife, children, and inlaws african american, many other african american and african canadians have joined my family through other areas.
As such, I have had the luxury of being a part of conversations that I will tell you most white people never get to be. And in that, I have developed an understanding of what it is like to live with an understanding that you are seen by certain aspects of society as noncitizens.
Like I said, DWB's are something that most every African American Male will tell you about, and even if they toss it off with a joking aside to their white friends, within the family, you come to understand that it is something that grates on people in a way that nothing in the white experience is comperable to.
You add to that, the very real chance of getting shot in one of the DWB situations (at least in New York) and the historical context which cannot be removed from which these incidents derive, and you can start to see how "a harmless joke" is a little more troublesome.
Any way, like I said, I don't want to continue on with this line, but you can feel free to provide your rebuttal to my statement. I would suggest however that you see if you can get your african american freinds and collegues to talk to you about DWB's and what they feel about them. If you are close to them as you pressume, I think they might be able to change your mind on this, but I know I cannot.
Posted: 05 Apr 2010 22:20
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Our disagreement was not over DWB's. It was the notion that a black person would hear an actual racial slur or less(as in the case of that foolish announcement) and just fall to the floor in the fetal position because of it as you were representing. Especially after such treatment as DWB's and other more and less obvious cases of racism. The reaction versus the events themselves. At worst we had a misunderstanding or seperate arguments crossing each other.
Quote: Not only are my wife, children, and inlaws african american, many other african american and african canadians have joined my family through other areas.
I'm wondering why this was so hard to mention before. This also doesn't automatically make your worldview superior or mean that I have not been part of such conversations, which I insist that I have.
Quote: the very real chance of getting shot in one of the DWB situations...
This isn't suggesting that people can't tell the difference between a stupid comment and being shot at? How badly does someone have to be treated to completely ignore context or realitites of situations they find themselves in and then handle their own reaction to it? As crappily as every seperate group gets treated by a majority (historically speaking), the answer is rarely if ever to devolve. You'll get individuals who go off the deep end definitely, but they are the exemption and not the rule, generally speaking.
Quote: I think they might be able to change your mind on this, but I know I cannot.
I hope we're clear now that I don't need my mind changed about the existence of racism. I know it's there and I'm well aware of how it makes people feel. From the first hand experience of it myself to how it makes other feel. This was not the issue at any time. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 05 Apr 2010 22:33
Registered User Currently Offline
Posts: 391
Join Date: Nov 2009
Ahh...see...this is actually a misunderstanding.
I never intended to suggest that African Americans would be horrified by this incident, merely that it's weight was greater than "just a harmless prank".
Simply put, the prank wasn't harmless. It's sort of like when some kid draws a swastika on a wall. Really the kid probably isn't trying to associate themselves with a history of violent oppression of "nonaryan" peoples, the kid is doing something that think is cool, or funny, or "evil" by which they think would be cool. But the effects of that image on those around them is greater than the intent of the child. That doesn't mean that any Jew who sees the swastika falls to the ground weeping. It just means that seeing it, and more specifically seeing nothing done about it, emphasises an old wound that is hard to heal.
Essentially, if you ever want these kinds of wounds to heal you have to say we won't tolerate this behavior. You have to take the Afirmative Action to show that we are no longer in that world that tolerated such things.
That's my point.
As to why I didn't want to go into my family's history, it's primarily because my wife does not like me discussing our private lives on line, and while what I was writing was harmless, it wasn't something that at that moment I felt I should be open about. Upon further discussion and deliberation I figured it was o.k.
And as to your experience, I guess to me, if you had been subject to those conversations, and not seen how such realities effect the psyche of those who experience them, then I don't know how to explain it to you.
Essentially, I can understand that someone might take the tack that giving a case like this greater status than it deserves serves to lessen the impact of far more damaging cases. That said I obviously feel that the damage done by ignoring cases such as these is greater. It's not a zero sum game either way. There is no exact right response, but often, especially with children, but with adults as well, I find that a firmer hand is better (metaphorically speaking of course).
Posted: 06 Apr 2010 18:07
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: It just means that seeing it, and more specifically seeing nothing done about it, emphasises an old wound that is hard to heal.
Not everyone reacts the same way.
Quote: we are no longer in that world that tolerated such things.
By hiding them away instead of dealing with whatever is fueling it? Just because the party doesn't see or hear such obvious evidence of it doesn't eliminate the hatred. Contending with it might do a greater service no?
Quote: how such realities effect the psyche of those who experience them
A large group of people can see or hear the same word, picture, symbol, thought or idea and each have their own perceptions of and responses to that item.
Quote: someone might take the tack that giving a case like this greater status than it deserves...
also acknowledges that the media can be distorted strictly in the interest of keeping viewers, whether those viewers are entertained, enthralled or enraged. Controversy fuels ratings.
As for children, they're much more resilient than people give them credit for and this opens a whole new venue for discussions about hate. Where do people learn it from, how to fight it and prevent it from existing in the first place, shielding them versus using experiences to teach, etc. We're not exactly winding this down as intended before. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
