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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 14:46 |
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This is hilarious. Got in a email. I don't know who wrote it, but they sure got it right.
SCHOOL 1977 vs 2007
Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls in to school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1977 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's
shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack
hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun
again. Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers.
Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after
school.
1977 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.
Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts
other students.
1977 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. Sc hool g ets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.
Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1977 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State
psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers
being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison.
Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.
Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school .
1977 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the
smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.
1977 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper
articles appear nationally explaining that teaching
English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak
English.
Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1977 - Ants die.
2007 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny
charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates
parents, siblings removed from home, computers
confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.
Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1977 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy
______________________________ end
And it just keeps getting better doesn't it?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 16:30 |
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 I've got to know what the libs think about this one.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 16:51 |
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Captain America
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Well, Reagan began dismantling the school system in 1981. Bush 1 continued it. For most of the 1990s and 2000s, the GOP controlled Congress, and have had the White House since 2001.
Sounds like most of this came under your side's watch – esp. all the hyper-police activity.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 16:57 |
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Sounds like most of this came under your side's watch – esp. all the hyper-police activity. yeah, right, let's forget the fact that the decline of schools started way back when we took God out of school, and let's also forget the fact that by the 1970's they thought it couldn't get any worse. I guess they just didn't realize how far it could go, and it ain't over yet pal.
Oh and let's also not forget that 8 years with Bill did nothing to slow the tide of destruction for our schools either.
Now admit something, in a sad way didn't you just crack up laughing at all those comparisons. I mean admit it, it was funny in a bad way.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 17:01 |
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Captain America
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yeah, right, let's forget the fact that the decline of schools started way back when we took God out of school, and let's also forget the fact that by the 1970's they thought it couldn't get any worse. I guess they just didn't realize how far it could go, and it ain't over yet pal.
Like I've said, my education was good, and if anything, I didn't take full advantage of it.
And taking god out of the schools doesn't matter, because there's no god, silly man.
A lot of that is bad funny, but whatcha gonna do?
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 17:04 |
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Quote:
Like I've said, my education was good, and if anything, I didn't take full advantage of it. If your education was so good you wouldn't say crazy things like Quote:
And taking god out of the schools doesn't matter, because there's no god,
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 17:14 |
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Captain America
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Once again, separation of church and state. You may not like it, but you still gotta accept it. Or try to change it. But taking swipes at it on an internet nessage board ain't gonna make it go away.
Now, this is stupid.
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa/localnews/news8/storie ...
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 18:09 |
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Slightly strange.
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Once again, separation of church and state. You may not like it, but you still gotta accept it. I don't have to accept your version because it is a complete distortion of what our founders wanted in the first place. They didn't want religion removed from the public. They only to not officially sanction one church over the other. You go way overboard, and I think it's mainly due to your atheistic view point. It's personal with you, and that kind of mentality has made it's way to the supreme court over the years. We all know if these matters were voted on by the general public the degree of seperation upheld by atheists and the ACLU would not hold to the absurd levels it has risen to in recent years.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 18:54 |
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Captain America
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See, once again, in your inability to parse very simple concepts, you conflate public with government. There's a difference. Learn it and then come back illuminate us with your newfound grasp of that important basic distinction.
Again, the supreme court just decided not to rule on a case involving separation of church and state, thereby holding true to that principle.
It's not my opinion, brainiac, it's the way the country is. It's a fact … a long-lived one.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 19:11 |
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Fossil Hills High School....that's a punchline all on it's own. Dumb or not, the principal gets the last say. Legislation of behavior on a very small level, and I don't envy that person their job.
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They didn't want religion removed from the public You're absolutely right. They didn't want anyone punished by law for expressing themselves in a public place about topics of government or religion. Government offices and schools are not public places any more than your house is. You are subject to their rules when you enter these places.
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We all know if these matters were voted on by the general public the degree of seperation upheld by atheists and the ACLU would not hold to the absurd levels it has risen to in recent years
I agree again Tim. If discussed by the public and decided by each individual community, each little community would have it's very own little government, each replete with it's very own laws and degrees of what is acceptible. It wouldn't be absurd anymore, it would be totally f***ed. Good that the founders had that foresight, isn't it? We couldn't have one town that legalizes drugs next to a soveriegn Islamic town, could we(no matter how fun that would be on the weekends)?
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that kind of mentality has made it's way to the supreme court
The Supreme Court still makes it's rulings based on the Constitution and existing law. Things like 'mentality', 'morality' and 'opinion' themselves affect nothing in those procedings.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 20:27 |
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It's not my opinion, brainiac, it's the way the country is. It's a fact … a long-lived one.
Thanks, the more insulting you get the more I know you are up against the wall. When you can't come back with anything of real substance you go balistic and start foaming at the mouth, and you all wonder why conservatives sometimes come across as hateful and angry. It's not without reason.
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Good that the founders had that foresight, isn't it? Yes, they did, it would be nice if we actually followed their true intent.
The fact of the matter gentlemen is that you don't want the voice of citizens to be heard for fear of what they might vote for. In actuality what you seem to be wanting is a government completely controlled by the whims of the supreme court. A court that is supposed to interpret the constitution not create new laws. That important distinction changes a government controlled by the people and for the people into a government controlled by a powerful few. We need to get back to the original concept of by the people and for the people.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 20:40 |
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Captain America
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Thanks, the more insulting you get the more I know you are up against the wall. When you can't come back with anything of real substance you go balistic and start foaming at the mouth, and you all wonder why conservatives sometimes come across as hateful and angry. It's not without reason.
And when you sling insults?
And who wants a government run by the supreme court? But, remember (and this works both ways), the supreme court is an equal branch of government to the congress and the white house.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 20:46 |
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And when you sling insults?
Usually to be honest, if it's name calling it's after you have done it first, and second I think you may mistake my making a point using humor as an insult. I don't care to swap names all day long, but while loads of fun doesn't really get us anywhere.
I like to use humor to make a point if possible but a direct name calling feud doesn't really do that.
The point is about the supreme court if they continue as they have in the past to go beyond interpretting the constitution to creating new laws then they have over stepped their bounds. They are supposed to interpret laws created by the people not create new laws for the people.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 20:49 |
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Captain America
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Quote:
The point is about the supreme court if they continue as they have in the past to go beyond interpretting the constitution to creating new laws then they have over stepped their bounds. They are supposed to interpret laws created by the people not create new laws for the people.
No, the point is that people interpret the constitution differently.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 21:51 |
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I don't think the interpretation is the problem as much as the adding of information that's not there to come to a conclusion opposite of what was intended by the founders for one's own political biased.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 21:52 |
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Captain America
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Quote:
I don't think the interpretation is the problem as much as the adding of information that's not there to come to a conclusion opposite of what was intended by the founders for one's own political biased.
When has this happened?
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 21:59 |
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Quote:
the voice of citizens to be heard for fear of what they might vote for.
I'm not too entirely sure you really would want this either if you could look past your own wants. You're not taking into account that some of our citizens are really screwy in the head, especially in the smaller, out of the way, out of touch towns. If you open the floodgate toward letting each community decide it's own legalities, you invite a literal hell on earth. One town could legalize marijuana by this. The next decides mushrooms and acid are okay. The next says lets change the name on the charter to Ecstasy, Alaska. This is just the drug laws.
How about the first amendment we've been batting around? You will literally be in your own man made heaven(maybe change the name of your town too) by it becoming a prayerfest, people prostrating themselves everywhere you turn. What you may not realize is that you have now allowed another town to banish God completely by allowing a vote on it. You make the mistake in assuming that Christianity is so prevalent that every community will naturally fall in line. For a very simple example, how well do you think that's really gonna fly in Salem, Massachusetts, the new Wiccan haven? Maybe throw anyone with a Christian holy book in jail until they come to their senses and renounce their evil ways?(ya-you read that right-think about it before blasting me over a personal attack)
How about if some communities decide that anything of any artistic value is protected by the first amendment including depictions of children engaged in sexual acts, beastiality, and for the trifecta, snuff films? That sounds absolutely rediculous right? Have you any idea the impact of a mob mentality and how it utterly destroys common sense and reason? How about the motivations of greed and desperation?
This would be the worst kind of Pandora's box.
By the way; In case no one mentioned it before, your vote is your voice, at least supposedly.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:10 |
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Did I go through a lot of these arguments before you started posting?
Ok well I'm sure you are pretty familiar with the kind of cases that get my attention.
The U.S. Supreme Court banned the posting of the Ten Commandments on public school classroom walls. Stone v. Graham, 449 U.S. 39 (1980). Now that was really dumb. They took off thou shalt not kill, and we all know how bad kids need to learn that these days.
The U.S. Supreme Court banned observance of "daily moments of silence" from public schools when students were encouraged to pray during the silent periods. Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985). - If I was in a public school right now I'd surely want to pray everyday, just for protection.
The U.S. Supreme Court outlawed prayers led by members of the clergy at public school graduation ceremonies. Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577 (1992) The U.S. Supreme Court banned student-led pre-game prayers at public high school football games. Santa fe independent school District v. Doe, certiorari to the United States court of appeals for the fifth circuit No. 99-62. Argued March 29, 2000--Decided June 19, 2000. - They should outlaw evolution instead.
from http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/rulings.html
Since 1962, the Supreme Court has consistently ruled that in "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," the Founding Fathers intended that no act of government (including public schools) should favor any one religion over others. That's hard to do, because once you mention God, Jesus, or anything even remotely "Biblical," you have pushed the constitutional envelope by "favoring" one practice of religion over all others.
It may very well be that the only way to not favor one religion over others, is to not favor any religion at all -- a path now being chosen by many public schools.
Government schools have one purpose -- to turn your kids into walking, talking government automatons, devoid of religious values, unable to think for themselves, ready, willing and able to serve the state as their highest authority.
In case you missed it, the ruling in the Texas case said prayers, such as those before high school football games, violate the constitutionally required separation of government and religion. For the record, there is no constitutional provision separating government and religion. The very idea would have been repugnant to most of the founding fathers. In fact, the First Amendment does just the opposite -- it protects religious expression from government and the establishment of an official religion by government.
Instead of wringing our hands and gnashing our teeth, we should be asking ourselves: What else should we expect from a rogue court hell-bent on establishing the state as the supreme authority in the land?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:23 |
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Captain America
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It may very well be that the only way to not favor one religion over others, is to not favor any religion at all -- a path now being chosen by many public schools.
Or to favor them all. So, do you think children should learn about christianity, judaism, islam, hinduism, buddhism, wiccan, native american beliefs, zorastrianism, etc.? And within those, what particular sects (catholicism or lutheran or orthodox, for instance).
What is so wrong with teaching your kids religion at home and at church, and leaving the reading, writing and arithmetic to the schools?
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:31 |
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What is so wrong with teaching your kids religion at home and at church, and leaving the reading, writing and arithmetic to the schools?
I just think that whatever the religious lines were back before the supreme court reign of terror began was working fine. It worked for a couple of centuries right? Ever since this war against religious expression has started school has gotten worse and worse. Hey, I used to be a tech support guy, and if we could figure out what was wrong we'd reboot or start the pc back at square one, or try to figure out what changed when the problem began. It's simple logic.
Nobody is talking about baptizing at school, just put it back to the lines it was before and stop with the religious police, or the ACLU as they are known. I'm not asking the government to go out of it's way to promote God, and I'm just saying don't go out their way to snuff out God. If a community wants a preacher to pray before a football game, why in God's name does that automatically have to be a law suit? It's nuts. I mean chill out ACLU. If the 10 commandments get put up on a bulleten board, so what? It never hurt kids in the 20's and 30's, 40's etc. It either hold significance to you, or it doesn't, but it sure shouldn't put you up in arms.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:31 |
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They took off thou shalt not kill, and we all know how bad kids need to learn that these days.
Without getting too grim here. Kids already know that which is why things like Columbine and other school 'massacres' are the exception and not the rule. If some messed up kid doesn't understand by the influence of his friends, his family, fear of consequence or just plain old fashioned common sense that killing is wrong, that plaque wouldn't have done squat anyway.
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The U.S. Supreme Court banned observance of "daily moments of silence"
I've been wanting to address this. Exactly what kind of big production are you talking about with prayer in school, or prayer anywhere for that matter? What exactly is involved here? If the individual is not shirking other activities or bothering anyone else, how could they stop you? Kid can go out on his lunchbreak and sit under a tree and do it there. How about in study hall where everyone is supposed to be reasonably silent to begin with? I don't understand what you've been pushing for with this. The state cannot set aside anything to enforce, endorse, or even suggest anything about any particular religion.
I must have answered that whole first amendment diatribe you have in the last two paragraphs at least a dozen times and I'm tired of repeating myself. Sorry.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:43 |
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that plaque wouldn't have done squat anyway. Maybe it's not the plaque, it's the fact that we need God's help in school, work, etc, and when we give him the boot we lose that help when we need it most.
Let's be honest when these shoot outs happen at school people pray even on school property, and the ACLU says nothing which of course is understandable, but I tell you it's a shame folks can pray after the fact and not before. We are turning slowly but surely into a communistic state, and it's a dirty shame.
And as I've said go back to square one, find out what changed, and take the school system as close to the those more functional days as possible. No, not talking about segregation, just think a little help from above is in order.
I'm not really asking for specifics. I just think we should let the local schools make up their own policies to a certain degree. The aclu goes way overboard and who the heck made them god anyway?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:51 |
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If your kid needs God in school, that is your responsibility, not the school's or anyone else's. You instill your beliefs at home, back them up at church and the kid should carry that with them.
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I just think we should let the local schools make up their own policies
Really? I ask because when that school made up it's own mind to tell that student not to say her prayer speech you seemed a little upset. What did I miss?
and..
Again, what is this big production number of prayer they're being prevented from doing again?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 02 Oct 2007 22:58 |
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Captain America
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What about god in the gas stations or the hotels? What about god in airports? What about god in the forests?
And why is god such a pansywight that a little legislature can run him off? Why is he letting the children suffer? I know he's a jealous god, but chickenshit, too?
What a crappy god you have. Zeus wouldn't have let some court run him out. You think Thor would have?
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2007 06:59 Last Edited By: Danny |
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Not that this doesn't make me a huge hypocrite, but I feel like it is still worth saying...
Just because we sort of know Tim, and just because we know his religion fuels his politics doesn't mean we can say things we wouldn't say to Buddhists, Hindus, Jews or Muslims.
Tim feels like he's being persecuted. Don't prove his point.
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2007 15:07 |
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If your kid needs God in school, that is your responsibility, not the school's I'm not asking for a federal law to regulate religion in school. I'm asking the federal government get out of the way. There never was any forcing of students to join a particular religion or anything before the aclu got involved.
Here's an modern example for you that kind of hopefully gives you an idea of what frustrates me. Let's say a couple from up north from a big city comes down to a small town in the south to get away from the crowds, the crime, the cranky people, and they put their kid into the small town school. Well let's say there is more religious expression in that school as rural communities are usually more religious. Now let's say that couple flips their lid and get's the aclu involved. Why? Because they want to make sure the small town turns into a hell hole like the place they just left. Happens all the time, I'll bet.
The thing is what right does Washington have to micro manage schools anyway? They can't do it effectively anyway. They might as well give the communites a break so more common sense can be used. A one size fits all mentality does not fit all communities. Your ideas of seperation should not be forced on communities that are more religious than the one you came from.
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And why is god such a pansywight that a little legislature can run him off? You expect God to force himself into every area of our lives? If we don't want Him somewhere when times are good, He's not going to automatically be there when times are bad. Free will remember.
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Really? I ask because when that school made up it's own mind to tell that student not to say her prayer speech you seemed a little upset. What did I miss? That's another issue. The school made a wrong decision based on their modern misunderstanding of the so-called seperation of church and state that isn't even in the constitution for the 100th time. You can't find it there and you know it.
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Tim feels like he's being persecuted. Don't prove his point. Well thanks. I don't necessarily feel persecuted. I just want to get past the grandstanding, smoking mirrors, or whatever you'd call it and get to the heart of the problem. CA seems to be trying to create an angry response from me so that I might fail to give an intelligent answer back on this issue. I can tell you this much I've never read a CA book where Cap was blatantly dispresptful to God. I'm thinking dude needs to change his handle to Captain Communist or something which would be more accurate.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2007 18:16 |
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I'm thinking dude needs to change his handle to Captain Communist or something which would be more accurate.
Annnnnnd then you prove HIS point. Where's the emoticon for me wishing I hadn't bothered speaking up?
Ugggh...
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2007 18:27 |
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Captain America
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The 'real' CA may be a protestant christian, but he'd balk at Tim's stance on church and state issues.
I was polite, at first, but Tim's never shown respect for my side, so, why take the high road. His god's a punk, who, according to Tim's logic, takes out his wrath against people who believe in separation of church and state against little children. I don't believe that Tim and the lemmings like him believe that. Falwell and Roberts chuckled about how the 9/11 attacks were god's wrath against agnostics, atheists and homosexuals (as if the first two and the latter are related)
His fictional god is a punk, who probably lives at his mother's house, listening to Rush and not reading newspapers.
OK, now I'm 14 again.
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2007 19:33 |
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Sounds like your drunk, I don't even think you know what my position is. I certainly never said 911 was God's wrath.
All I want is a return to basic common sense. No more no less. If you read the original humorous posting you can easily see my point.
We don't need political correct Nazis running around America telling communities how to run their schools, and we don't need atheists taking away rights from Christian kids for daring to believe in God in public.
However, I have never said one thing to make you believe I would want a atheist's kid or buddist or whatever to be forced to believe in God. Expressions of belief are not force, and that is what our founders were against. I believe they wanted a society of free thinkers not a communist state.
Common sense back the way it was before the ACLU took over America.
And further it's easy to act like a tough guy a million miles a way so stop with the bs otherwise get in a car and meet me at the football or b ball field if you gonna talk trash.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2007 19:36 |
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Captain America
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I'll not address your other points, as I have hundred or so times before.
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And further it's easy to act like a tough guy a million miles a way so stop with the bs otherwise get in a car and meet me at the football or b ball field if you gonna talk trash.
How am I talking tough, chickenhawk?
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