Quote: An honors student in Fort Worth, Texas, was sent to the principal’s office and punished for telling a classmate that he believes homosexuality is wrong.
Holly Pope said she was “absolutely stunned” when she received a telephone call from an assistant principal at Western Hills High School informing her that her son, Dakota Ary, had been sent to in-school suspension.
“Dakota is a very well-grounded 14-year-old,” she told Fox News Radio noting that her son is an honors student, plays on the football team and is active in his church youth group. “He’s been in church his whole life and he’s been taught to stand up for what he believes.”
And that’s what got him in trouble.
Dakota was in a German class at the high school when the conversation shifted to religion and homosexuality in Germany. At some point during the conversation, he turned to a friend and said that he was a Christian and “being a homosexual is wrong.”
“It wasn’t directed to anyone except my friend who was sitting behind me,” Dakota told Fox. “I guess [the teacher] heard me. He started yelling. He told me he was going to write me an infraction and send me to the office.”
Dakota was sentenced to one day in-school suspension – and two days of full suspension. His mother was flabbergasted, noting that her son had a spotless record, was an honor student, volunteered at his church and played on the school football team.
Officials at the high school did not return calls for comment. However, the Fort Worth Independent School District issued a statement that read:
“As a matter of course, Fort Worth ISD does not comment on specific employee or student-related issues. Suffice it to say that we are following district policy in our review of the circumstances and any resolution will likewise be in accordance with district policy.”
After a meeting with Pope and her attorney, the school rescinded the two-day suspension so Dakota would be allowed to play in an upcoming football game.
“They’ve righted all the wrongs,” said Matt Krause, an attorney with the Liberty Counsel. “This should have no lasting effect on his academic or personal record going forward.”
Schools are the most liberal institutions on the planet. It wouldn't surprise me that one day any non politically correct free speech would result in some form of punishment. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Sep 2011 18:17
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I'm sure we got an unbiased and full account of the story from FoxNews. AmIRight? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Sep 2011 20:36
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You shouldn't assume because it's Fox that they hid all the things you wanted to hear about the story. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Sep 2011 21:38
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Fox has a long history of stilted reporting and bias; I have no business believing otherwise out of hand. Kinda similar to how you don't like the Turk guy and what's included in that media package.
We could go into a discussion not involving them about freedom of speech if you like. Tell me exactly why you think this student was wronged by being penalized for disrupting his class in your own words, instead of relying on Fox reporting. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 28 Sep 2011 16:09 Last Edited By: Tim
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I don't think the kid was punished for disrupting class. I think the point of the article was that he was punished for what he said.
If it were just about disrupting the class by talking then you'd have to ask why was the teacher yelling.
Quote: “It wasn’t directed to anyone except my friend who was sitting behind me,” Dakota told Fox. “I guess [the teacher] heard me. He started yelling. He told me he was going to write me an infraction and send me to the office.”
I'll not argue with you as far as if he was just being punished for disruption of class then by all means punish away. Neither one of us having been there could argue that. The question is would you support the idea that the kid shouldn't be punished for the speaking out on his beliefs if that was all that was involved? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 28 Sep 2011 21:25
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Quote: I think the point of the article was that he was punished for what he said.
Which is the opinion of the 'journalist'.
Quote: If it were just about disrupting the class by talking then you'd have to ask why was the teacher yelling.
If the kid was talking to his friend behind him, that means the kid either had his back turned or was talking loudly enough in the wrong direction. Teachers usually don't like these things either way.
If this was a course on Germany, and the topic of homosexuality came up, the only remote connection I can even think of is the Holocaust and how the gays were one of the persecuted groups. So, if that's the case, then this kid chiming in about his belief at that exact moment was basically saying 'Hitler was right', and if the teacher happens to be Polish, or Jewish, or gay for that matter, or even German, or even just a decent person with a pulse, that might have struck a nerve.
Quote: The question is would you support the idea that the kid shouldn't be punished for the speaking out on his beliefs if that was all that was involved?
Last time I checked, kids were supposed to keep their mouths shut unless they raised a hand first or were called upon. The teacher should be the only one speaking otherwise.
Let's pretend that isn't the case though; Should that kid get the same free pass if his opinion wasn't something you agreed with already? Should he be allowed to tell the teacher he thinks the teacher is a jerk just because he believes it? How about when this kid spoke up if the kid next to him said God was make believe? How about the kids all jump in then since they all have opinions and start a grand debate since allowing one the right to speak freely must mean giving the same right to everyone? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 28 Sep 2011 21:52
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How about we just keep it focused on the question of whether or not the teacher was punishing the kid for his beliefs, or for a legitimate problem.
I want to know do you value the opinions of others or are do you want to force your opinions down the throats of others using the schools to do it. That's what you guys claim Christians try to do with creationism, but are youwilling to force politically correct crap, atheism, and all the rest because you believe in it using the school systems or whatever is at your disposal? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 28 Sep 2011 22:48
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Quote: How about we just keep it focused on the question of whether or not the teacher was punishing the kid for his beliefs, or for a legitimate problem.
I did focus on just that. I'll repeat it though. No problem.
Kids have no place talking out of turn in class, regardless of what the content is. I said what I said after that to not only illustrate why but for you to consider your own bias on this not-quite-news story and show why the teacher was punishing a disruption and not his beliefs.
Now after telling me to just focus on what the teacher was punishing, you delve away from it immediately after. I'm not 100% certain you want me to answer this, but I'll give it a go just the same.
Quote: do you value the opinions of others or are do you want to force your opinions down the throats of others using the schools to do it.
I want reciprocal appreciation of the views I hold and the ones others hold and don't need a school to do anything for me. The school's job is supposed to be educating the kids in a social environment, not any one groups' individual agenda.
Quote: That's what you guys claim Christians try to do with creationism
Creationism isn't science, so trying to have it invade science class where it doesn't belong is forcing a set of opinions down those children's throats for the purposes of a religious agenda.
Quote: but are youwilling to force politically correct crap, atheism, and all the rest because you believe in it using the school systems or whatever is at your disposal?
I don't know which 'politically correct crap' you're referring to, so I'll leave that be. No, atheism need never even come up in conversations in school unless as a direct response to a religious question. I have no idea what 'all the rest' refers to either so I can't respond there either and again, no, I do not need the schools to do my talking for me and whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, I have no agenda to push, especially not to school children.
Nice try at avoiding my questions though(not that we haven't been here before). I'll post them here again on the off chance you just missed them. I was courteous enough to answer yours. Please return the favor.
Quote: Should that kid get the same free pass if his opinion wasn't something you agreed with already? Should he be allowed to tell the teacher he thinks the teacher is a jerk just because he believes it? How about when this kid spoke up if the kid next to him said God was make believe? How about the kids all jump in then since they all have opinions and start a grand debate since allowing one the right to speak freely must mean giving the same right to everyone?
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 29 Sep 2011 14:56
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Quote: Should that kid get the same free pass if his opinion wasn't something you agreed with already?
My assumption was that the kid was being punished for his beliefs not for speaking out in class. From that point of view I believe that any opinion be it conservative or liberal should not be punished. For the record of course if it was only a matter of disturbing a class then the teacher would be in his rights to punish the child which really goes without even saying.
Quote: Should he be allowed to tell the teacher he thinks the teacher is a jerk just because he believes it?
No, he shouldn't be allowed to say those exact words directly to a teacher in class obviously. Saying them in a private conversation would be another matter altogether.
Quote: How about when this kid spoke up if the kid next to him said God was make believe?
Then that would be the basis for a good debate no doubt, but obviously only if the kids were having time for conversation in class and not talking while the teacher was talking.
But for the sake of argument based on your outlook, let's say the kid was disrupting the class by talking. The question then becomes was he singled out? Were any of the other students talking at the same time? Is this the usual punishment for talking in class? Why didn't the school simply say the kid was being punished for the act of disrupting class instead of leaving the reason open for interpretation? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 29 Sep 2011 21:56
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Quote: only if the kids were having time for conversation in class and not talking while the teacher was talking.
Why is this not a stipulation for the kid in the news story who did just decide to speak up while his teacher was teaching? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 30 Sep 2011 20:47
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For the sake of argument since neither of us was there I think the questions I raised are legitimate.
Quote: The question then becomes was he singled out? Were any of the other students talking at the same time? Is this the usual punishment for talking in class? Why didn't the school simply say the kid was being punished for the act of disrupting class instead of leaving the reason open for interpretation?
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Posted: 30 Sep 2011 21:42
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You're looking for ways to have him persecuted as a Christian while ignoring that he disrupted a class and action was taken specifically because of that, so, no, not necessarily are your questions 'legitimate'. I'll answer anyway.
1. He was singled out. He was the only one talking over the teacher so he got singled out, correctly.
2. See answer 1.
3. You're assuming this is his first offense. Take a step back and ask if this was maybe standard for a repeat offender or if this particular occasion was answered properly with that response instead of just offering him unearned status.
4. That answer was in the article itself. Moreso, it was actually in the part you quoted and not in what you left out.
Quote: “As a matter of course, Fort Worth ISD does not comment on specific employee or student-related issues. Suffice it to say that we are following district policy in our review of the circumstances and any resolution will likewise be in accordance with district policy.”
I did however ask a valid and legitimate question as a response to your saying:
Quote: only if the kids were having time for conversation in class and not talking while the teacher was talking.
which was:
Quote: Why is this not a stipulation for the kid in the news story who did just decide to speak up while his teacher was teaching?
It's ignoring this question and any honest answer you have to it, even if you share it now that points out your questions as less than 'legitimate' and why I say you're trying to twist matters just to cast a spotlight on this situation as him only being a persecuted Christian. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 01 Oct 2011 13:24 Last Edited By: Matches
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So I just Binged Dakota Ary and found that there are several sites perporting to give more informaiton on this story. Since this is a niche story, it's mostly being reported by either far right news outlets and LGBTQ outlets, there is certainly as much reason to question the new information as the initial information, but as it is now being reported, the kid in question has a history of distruptive taunting of the teacher who is perceived by the student as gay.
Historically speaking, there aren't a lot of cases of students being suspended for minor infractions, usually there is some aspect of classroom disruption involved.
Posted: 03 Oct 2011 18:18
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Quote: 1. He was singled out. He was the only one talking over the teacher so he got singled out, correctly.
How do you know that? Were you there? Do you have surveilance tapes? I'm amazed at your all knowingness here.
Quote: why I say you're trying to twist matters just to cast a spotlight on this situation as him only being a persecuted Christian.
I'm not twisting anything, I'm simply asking the questions that need to be answered to know whether or not the kid was wrongly punished or rightly punished for that matter. We can't simply assume the kid or the teacher is right or wrong automatically.
But having said that if I was the principle and the teacher told me this kid was the only one talking and he disrupted the class and has a history of doing so, I would punish the kid. If I suspected the kid was being singled out for his beliefs I would not. It's as simple as that. The problem being none of us are all knowing and could not come up with a perfect solution.
I normally don't have a lot of issue with kids getting disciplined in school, but lets face it teachers aren't always fair. I remember back in school when we'd get into trouble for fighting. It didn't matter if you were the one getting your head beat off. You were participating in a fight and away to the office you went. Defending yourself was never an excuse nor for that matter just standing there and getting your face beat to a pulp. For a student it was a no win scenario.
So don't tell me teachers are perfect in their discipline. I certainly think kids need discipline though just the right kind of discipline based on what the kid did or didn't do. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 03 Oct 2011 18:58
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Quote: How do you know that?
In the article you provided, as well as the video interview with the kid, he admits he started talking to his friend and the teacher started yelling at him. There's no room for other kids being involved there except for the friend he turned to.
Quote: if I was the principle and the teacher told me this kid was the only one talking and he disrupted the class and has a history of doing so, I would punish the kid.
Right. We're pretty much done right there because that's exactly the case. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 04 Oct 2011 22:18
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I disagree, and I'll tell you why if this kid was getting into trouble for a liberal issue you'd be singing the exact opposite tune. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 05 Oct 2011 03:30
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He didn't get in trouble for a liberal or conservative reason. He got in trouble for not knowing when to keep his mouth shut. Whatever came out of it in the process is immaterial. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 05 Oct 2011 21:09
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For the sake of argument if he didn't then the teacher was wrong. How about that? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 05 Oct 2011 22:29
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It's now what happened, but if you need to cling to it as just a remote possibility for some reason, knock yourself out.
I have no proof that there wasn't a rape in the classroom or kids were not cooking meth in the back or that Yoda wasn't whispering in Dakota's ear, but it's a pretty strong likelihood that those things weren't going on. If I wanted to imagine that maybe they were happening, what would be the harm, just for the sake of argument? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 07 Oct 2011 19:55
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Geez, I really think the reason you are so upset here is because you don't want to even open the door for the possibility that in any case a teacher must not punish a kid for conservative thought. By my statements I've agree any kid should be punished for distrubting class just not for having a different political opinion than the teacher if that be the case. Conversation should be able to allow different possibilities as it relates to this case or other cases in the future that might come about. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 07 Oct 2011 21:46
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Why are you imagining I'm upset? I'm not.
Not that it would have any impact on the story either way. What actually happened happened regardless of who might like it or not.
As for this:
Quote: Conversation should be able to allow different possibilities as it relates to this case or other cases in the future that might come about.
That's fine, but you can't have it both ways. Earlier in this thread when (I'm guessing here) you thought you could still make the kid out to be a victim because of his Christianity you wanted to keep it focused:
Quote: How about we just keep it focused on the question of whether or not the teacher was punishing the kid for his beliefs, or for a legitimate problem.
and now, (guessing again) that this has been taken away, you want to open it up to alternatives and other possibilities, in what looks to me like you frantically grasping for finding a way to make this kid look like a persecuted victim again, by any means possible or necessary.
Conversation shouldn't be quite less underhanded than this as well. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Oct 2011 21:29
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I'm not frantically trying to make him look like anything. I simply used the story to discuss my point of view. In the long run it doesn't matter of the kid was a persecuted Christian or a troubled loud mouth who got good press. What matters is this. Do our schools sometimes punish kids for having conservative values based on the fact that our school systems are becoming increasingly liberal? Of course that probably doesn't concern you as much because you don't seem to find any fault with teaching kids liberalism or brainwashing kids with liberalism.
Just because one case could go either way doesn't change the discussion. There's a million more cases out there that are probably not getting noticed that can fall either way. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 11 Oct 2011 22:31
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Quote: you don't seem to find any fault with teaching kids liberalism or brainwashing kids with liberalism.
Serious answer: I don't want kids brainwashed with anything, whatever political or philosophical channel that may fall under.
A little more smarmy answer: What is this 'liberalism' you speak of and how do you brainwash someone with it? Is it anything like how people are brainwashed with religion? Is this just a matter of not liking competition?
Quote: Just because one case could go either way doesn't change the discussion.
You posted a news story. You were very certain this kid was punished for being a Christian, when that clearly wasn't the case. Now you want there to be a possibility he was, just for the sake of argument and as in the case of this sake of argument, there are a million more cases just like it out there.
Christians aren't being persecuted by non-Christians any more than Christians are persecuting others who aren't in their religion. You want to point at this imaginary case with Dakota Ary? Here's some real persecution from some Baptists, at a school no less(guess there were no funerals to disrupt that day):
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
