Quote: Again, if you won't credit God with starting to smoke than creditting Him with quitting makes no sense whatsoever. He either did both or neither.
That's like saying a doctor that cures a patient of cancer was responsible for the patient getting cancer to start with.
Quote: I don't believe in Heaven either, so the path doesn't matter. You have your beliefs Tim, others have them too.
Somebody has got to be right belief or no belief. You willing to bet eternity you got the right answer?
Quote: Just not closed minded enough to lump them all together as extremists and terrorists when I not only know some personally but just plain know better.
I'm closed minded? I'm just not afraid to ask the tough questions. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 17:34
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: That's like saying a doctor that cures a patient of cancer was responsible for the patient getting cancer to start with
No. They are nothing alike. Try again. He gets full credit or none. You're a puppet or you make your own choices. It's one or the other, not pick and choose.
Quote: Somebody has got to be right belief or no belief. You willing to bet eternity you got the right answer?
Already did make that bet. What makes you think Christianity is the smart bet? If someone really wanted to be like Jesus, they'd actually be Jewish wouldn't they? Place your bets....I think it would be really funny if we were supposed to all be Buddhists or Scientologists.
Quote: I'm closed minded?
Well, you may actually like the term conservative better. They're pretty much synonimous. Stating that incest and gays are the same isn't asking a tough question. Stating that everyone has to follow Jesus isn't asking a tough question. Blaming Elvis for people having sex isn't a tough question. Calling all Muslims radicals, extremists, terrorists and sympathizers is not a tough question. I see false associations, grandstanding, libel and just plain outdated thinking. Where are your tough questions? The only questions you give seem to be in response to other questions so as to avoid answering some tough questions of your own. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 17:54
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote: You're a puppet or you make your own choices. It's one or the other, not pick and choose.
Well maybe I wasn't clear. I prayed to God to help me quit. So I chose to quit like I chose to start, I just wasn't strong enough to carry out my desire of quitting on my own. The addiction to smoking was way to much for me to handle by sheer will power. You see I can handle like pain from heavy duty weight lifting and exercise. Something that quick and it's over, but something that just keeps nagging and nagging like a cigerette for days and weeks, I just couldn't beat it.
Quote: What makes you think Christianity is the smart bet?
I told you before, personal experiences I have witnessed in my own life.
Quote: Blaming Elvis for people having sex isn't a tough question.
Hey for the record I'm a huge Elvis fan, but I thought the question had to be asked based on the observation of Billy Joel a man who had actually lived the 50's and was what I would call an expert on rock and roll.
Quote: Calling all Muslims radicals, extremists, terrorists and sympathizers is not a tough question
I'm not calling I'm wondering here what the truth is. Sure I'm leaning toward a direction, but I'm waiting to be proven wrong. Just because I don't think muslims know the way to heaven means I want them to all be terrorist. I'd rather be friends with everyone, but I'm not going to bend over and say kick me to avoid standing up for myself or again asking the tough questions. I'm just afraid the whole hoopla I'm hearing about muslims might not be exactly neutral unbiased info. I'm afraid America is trying to make up for what happened to the Japanese during WW2 with the camps and all, but may be overcompensating like politicians and media do on everything else.
You know going overboard is a national pastime. You can take just about anything like the Unions for example. Originally labor unions were a good thing, now some of the rules they come up with are almost bizarre. Like only one worker can unscrew the glass in a light, then only the electrician is allowed to come in and change the light bulb. I'm not changing the subject here. I'm just using it as an example of the world going over board past where it would have been a good thing to stop while they were ahead.
It's just that after 911 we heard nothing but worry for muslims to the point it overshadowed the steps necessary to protect ourselves from terrorism. Take a recent incident where muslims in a airport were acting funny and someone reported it. The muslims turned out to be innoccent. Fair enough, but now they want to sue the citizen that reported their behaviour. Libs applaud with no thought for the consequences that could have in the future like no one being brave enough to report any suspicious behaviour. I'm not going to report someone if I'm going to get sued. Who knows if they are bad or not. The citizen reporting isn't a trained professional, but the authorities have told us all to report any suspicious behaviour. If they are going to allow the citizen to be sued, then the government is going to have to teach every airline passenger how to spot a terrorist and what are the acceptable criteria. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 18:40
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Times changes Tim. Paradigm shifts happen like how everyone all of a sudden has to have a cellphone. Attitudes shift as new trends are discovered and new fads come and go- this is anything that garners an opinion; entertainment, business, politics, religion. Some things have always been there and will always be there. Some things disappear into iniquity and obsolesence. Sciences stabilizes the past and lays foundations for the future. The media changes it views based on it's viewers and what they think those viewers want to see to maximize their advertizing revenue which in turn fuels those paradigm shifts, trends and fads I mentioned above.
The whole hoopla you hear about Muslims is not neutral and unbiased. Neutral and unbiased is boring. Boring makes people stop buying the paper and change the channel they're watching. They'd much rather have you fearful and needing them, much like our government. Muslims know the path to Heaven just like you; faith. You say you want the right to be treated equally because you're Christian and yet you consistantly knock other religions and deny them equality. Where's your unbiased neutrality?
I believe our national pastime right now is actually getting fat so going overboard on food fits right in with your statement, at least in spirit. What you describe with the labor unions is a great example of either red tape or just 'too much government'.
The citizen can't be sued for reporting strange behavior because a court would have to decide what that guy thought strange behavior was and then compare it to his actions that day. It's not going to happen and I have a feeling that where-ever you got that from is a biased outlet. It is a new world and as citizens in it we have a responsibility to change with it. If you see a bag just lying there, you report it and should have no fear of the bag suing you. If someone looks like they are acting odd and you report it you should still have absolutely no fear of being sued because you acted responsibly by speaking up. Yes, there will be more than a few people that try and take advantage of that and start reporting any particular 'type' they see fit as something that fits in between prank and hate crime. While unfortunate, there's nothing that the accused can really do to retaliate. If a cop chooses to pick someone out of a line based on appearance, whether due to clothing, color of skin, religious articles worn or something actually suspicious, they have to worry about being accused of profiling. Regular citizens can't profile as they are not in that position of authority and therefore cannot be sued unless it becomes an actual crime such as harrassment. The only issue left is for the witness to not outright lie by stating things that are untrue as fact or just making things up to make the story sound better. If that witness is expressing fear or concern based on their opinion, or even just a hunch, they have every right to waqrn someone equipped to deal with it.
You want to report someone? Knock yourself out. Just do it properly. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 25 Aug 2007 17:13
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote: Muslims know the path to Heaven just like you; faith. You say you want the right to be treated equally because you're Christian and yet you consistantly knock other religions and deny them equality. Where's your unbiased neutrality?
Logically Christ would have never died on the cross if there were already other ways to heaven. I never said I believed being a muslim disqualified anyone from voting, driving a car, having a family or any other important part of American life. How am I taking away their rights?
Quote: because a court would have to decide what that guy thought strange behavior was and then compare it to his actions that day.
No you are confusing winning a case with actually being in court. They can still take it to court and it will cost the citizen that complained a lot of money even if he wins. See that's the problem with our justice system these days. You don't even have to win a case to be a major pain in the ass to someone.
Quote: Regular citizens can't profile as they are not in that position of authority and therefore cannot be sued
That's the way it should be, but not the way it is currently. There was a law that allowed folks to speak out anomalously, but the dems thought that it would hurt equal rights.
The whole deal with profiling is stupid sometimes. If we are having problems with terrorist from the middle east. I think I'm going to pay closer attention when someone fitting that description walks into a airline unless you want to be a complete idiot about it. Now mind you it would be equally dumb to not suspect the terrorist might try to blend in more, or get some white guy who looks like he just came from a baseball game to do their dirty work. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 01:45
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
You keep making things up and it's getting tedious so I just have to have one last little non-political bout before I leave this sewage.
I didn't say you were taking away their rights, just that you weren't treating them as equals. Your being a Christian and being allowed your religious freedom doesn't give you right to shit all over everyone else's different beliefs, whether Muslim, Jewish or Atheist.
Christ died on the cross for being found guilty and then being put to death. It's religious spin that makes it something else. Your logic is none too logical.
Quote: They can still take it to court
Another example of your imagination over-reaching reality. If you see something strange behaviorwise from an individual and report that incident to someone, there is nothing actionable unless it becomes an actual crime like profiling or harrassment. Our judicial system has many problems, but this is not one of them.
Whether or not your 'tip' is anonymous, the same still applies, which actually makes it better for one simple reason. The hateful person who doesn't like a particular other person can't just accuse that someone recklessly or with abandon while hiding. We always have the right to face our accusor, or you haven't heard of this either?
Profiling's against the law and regular citizens can't be accused of it. That's not opinion, that's not a what-if, that's not an argument. Deal with it.
Maybe you haven't noticed but those middle eastern terrorist groups have sympathisers born and bred right here. The next time a building does get leveled it will probably be because a guy is getting hassled with his turban while the explosives on that 'regular joe' are missed. It's a post 911 world; who can we afford to ignore in favor of just looking at one race or set of them? Do you really think you know the face of your enemy? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 03:50
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
This seemed appropriate if a little graphic. Sensitive viewers should not watch.
This is a very real set of reasons for me to continue to support the seperation of church and state. Look what it leads to when they intermingle.
Enjoy the song in any case. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 20:27
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote: Your being a Christian and being allowed your religious freedom doesn't give you right to shit all over everyone else's different beliefs, whether Muslim, Jewish or Atheist.
Just how am I doing that? Is this that liberal logic that says I can't open my mouth about my beliefs without having a disclaimer every time. The muslims aren't going to water down their beliefs either pal. I'm telling you what the Bible says. Not what sounds good. Like I've said before I could be friends with anyone, but by the time I get through speaking my mind. They might not choose to be mine, but that's just the way I am. I speak my mind. I don't respect this hee hawing around bit. At least I don't go around insulting the intelligence of folks that don't believe the way I do. I haven't called anyone stupid or anything for having another religious perspective. If someone feels insulted for my disagreeing with them, then they've got issues.
Quote: If you see something strange behaviorwise from an individual and report that incident to someone, there is nothing actionable unless it becomes an actual crime like profiling or harrassment. Our judicial system has many problems, but this is not one of them.
Dude this worry I had came from a real incident on the news a few weeks ago. The dems took out the right for people to remain anomonous. They claimed it was in violation of the rights of people to know their accuser. Gee whiz libs are aggravating. Your political pals make stupid laws, and then you deny it ever happened. Talk about having your cake and eating it too. The hypocrisy is mind blowing.
Here I heard on it fox news first ,but apparently it's old news. I had to look for a while but I found this on it.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0707/saunders073007.php3 On the ammendment that would keep citizens names private when reporting suspicious activity. This is what it said.
Quote: So why did the House leadership keep the King amendment out of the bill? Bay Area Democrats — with the exception of Reps. Tom Lantos and Jerry McNerney — were among the 121 Democrats who voted against the measure; 105 House Dems, and 199 Repubs, voted for it. When the Senate passed a companion measure by a 57-39 vote, it lacked the 60 votes to make it to the floor. But the deal set the stage for the Senate to approve the measure Thursday.
Now what is the current status. I'm not sure, but it doesn't look good from what I've read here. Don't act like I make up this crap. I have no reason to fabricate stuff from my imagination to win a argument. I'm not a liberal for crying out loud.
Quote: Sensitive viewers should not watch.
Dude if that's real life people getting killed or something than I fit into the sensitive category. Please don't post anything with people getting their heads cut off or something. Seeing something like that can mess up your mind forever. Give me a description before I watch it. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 04:52
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote: The dems took out the right for people to remain anomonous. They claimed it was in violation of the rights of people to know their accuser. Gee whiz libs are aggravating. Your political pals make stupid laws, and then you deny it ever happened
You have the right to face your accusor. Where does this make anything happen to the accuser? Read the quote from the article you listed with me.
Quote: to grant immunity from civil liability to people who report potential threats to or acts of terrorism against transportation systems or passengers
This was passed meaning (drum roll) nothing will happen to the accuser unless another actual crime like profiling or harrassment is involved.
Anyone can hire a lawyer to sue anyone or anything else their little heart sees fit, but if it doesn't merit an actual suit, then it never sees court.
I didn't think you made it up at all, just didn't get the message.
That video shows real images from what is happening overseas. The bombs, the dead and dying, the waste of it all. All over different opinions, money and oil. People should know what they are really supporting. If you actually support Bush or this war, know the price both sides are paying. If you really support our soldiers, seeing something like this can only strengthen that supportiveness. If you think seeing three minutes of it can mess up your mind, imagine that they are living every minute of it. The song fits it too. 'God's gonna cut you down' by Johnny Cash. I hope you know me well enough by now to know I didn't post this lightly Tim.
There's your description. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 06:29
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
It's funny what you find when you're not looking for it. I saw a funny little news bit on youtube about the ACLU fighting for a Christmas Tree! Guess who I thought of immediately.
Check this out Tim.
www.aclufightsforchristians.com __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 06:30
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
Hrm-didn't convert URL into link. Copy and paste. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 19:00
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Ok from fox news and the article I read from my understanding it's saying that a clause was left off in a vote by dems that allowed citizens to be anomonous. So unless you read the clause was put back in people can get sued for saying someone is acting suspicious. I don't know what makes you think the case would automatically get thrown out before it costs the individual being sued a bunch of money for a lawyer.
I checked out the acluforchristians site. One link on that site http://www.mauinews.com/story.aspx?id=26128 basically has the ACLU suing Jews for posting hannukah stuff. They believed a Christmas tree was secular enough and should be put up to make the holiday decorations more seculiar. They are a bunch of nuts picking on Jewish people. Why don't just ask nice like to the county to put up a tree too. Ain't no need to get all hostile with a law suit. The ACLU just gets money for suing. I think they'd sue their own grandmothers if they didn't have anything else to do.
Occassionly the ACLU might accidentally do some good cases, but it's by sheer accident I assure you. There is no logic or set standard for these guys. I wouldn't be surprised if the ACLU is broke up into regions where each region has it's own ideas of constitutionality. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:52
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
You're not allowed to accuse someone of anything and remain anonymous excepting cases where that anonymity is specifically offered. The article you showed the link for explained that citizens cannot be sued for doing their duty, just that they can't hide while doing it. You can thank GWB and the Patriot Act for removing that anonymity.
As for the ACLU. First off, they are not some roving band of lunatics running around and just litigating people for the fun of it. It's (generally speaking) a group of lawyers that have clients who get their civil rights defended by the group. If someone winds up in court with the ACLU, it's because another party paid for the ACLU's involvement first.
The incident with them fighting for the Christmas tree was because the town had put a giant menorrah(spelling?) on the lawn first. This was in accordance with the constitution not allowing their local government to endorse one religion over another without resorting to telling people not to celebrate the holidays. A client paid them to pursue that matter through legal channels and the local citizens got their Christmas symbol next to the Channukah symbol.
Quote: There is no logic or set standard for these guys.
Hogwash. They uphold the constitution by fighting for what it correct to respect our rights as Americans. That is the one standard they adhere to. While you might not appreciate everything they've done, please understand that as an American, they are there to protect your rights. That's regardless of your neighborhood, your income, color, race, religion or any other factor besides what is constitutional. Of course they get money for suing. They're lawyers and that's what they're paid to do. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 28 Aug 2007 17:44
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote: Of course they get money for suing. They're lawyers and that's what they're paid to do.
hey their liberals they should do it for free, right.
Seriously you know these guys are all over the place so give it up. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 28 Aug 2007 17:52
Captain America
Groups like the ACLU, the NRA, PETA, etc. always take far left or right stands because they are trying to expand the middle ground on the views which they represent.
And I do think the ACLU is a non-profit. I believe the NRA is, too.
Posted: 28 Aug 2007 18:08
Administrator Currently Offline
Posts: 4786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Quote: they are trying to expand the middle ground on the views which they represent.
If that were true I suggest they only go after cases that warrant their time where an actual problem exists. To do anything else is arrogance, and sets them up as rulers over the country.
Now as far as the NRA I don't think they go to too many extremes from my point of view, but I'm sure they do occassionally. They aren't as bad as the ACLU. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 28 Aug 2007 18:16
Captain America
Quote: Now as far as the NRA I don't think they go to too many extremes from my point of view, but I'm sure they do occassionally. They aren't as bad as the ACLU.
I think assault weapons are a bit excessive and fighting background checks is just asinine.
Posted: 28 Aug 2007 19:01
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
While the ACLU may be a nonprofit, I can't imagine lawyers doing anything for free. They must gain something somewhere. Tim, you're calling them nutcases and say they're all over the place. Explain.
Seems you support the NRA but not the group which defends the document that gives us the right to bear arms in the first place. What gives? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
