This lil gem touches (really briefly) on intelligent design and manages to cover just about everything we've been discussing Tim. Let me know what you think.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 19 Aug 2007 19:55
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Sounds like the guy on the video is really looking hard for something to belly ache about to be honest.
What kind of argument is it that in the 1800's "In God We Trust" was added to coins? How does that help the atheist's side? Sounds to me like it helps my side showing a long precedence for the relationship between America and God.
He lists George Washington as if GW was not the man of prayer he was. There were several instances where GW acknowledged the importance of God in America. Think of all the paintings of GW praying for victory. The problem with mr. atheist here is that he forgets that our Founding Fathers like GW were praying men. They prayed for help from the Almighty and got it. Otherwise America wouldn't be here. How else did we defeat the largest most powerful army in the world at the time? God wanted this country here. The problem with atheism is it only works when times are great. America is a blessed nation, and the world for the most part has more than ever before. So atheism is flourishing, but really when the chips are down and it's about time for you die. Are you going to take a chance that God isn't real? Not me brother. I need money, health, or help of any kind. I'm praying. Forget the pride of calling yourself an atheist. I'll gladly accept help from the Almighty.
This guy is against religious fervor. That's what motivated the pilgrims to come to America in the first place.
He's talking about religious nuts blowing themselves up. The devil doesn't play by the rules. He loves it when people are religious but have no real relationship with God. The devil has got lots and lots of phonies running around to muddy up the water.
He implies Christians are rewriting history. That's rich. I'd really love to compare early American text books and history books to modern day school books and see who's doing the rewriting.
The real question is. Why do Christians care about atheists?
Answer: Christians are commanded to love everyone, and don't want anyone to go to hell without Jesus Christ. I hate to see people suffer. I hate to see people feel they have nowhere to turn but the government for help. People need faith especially when times are rough. Hope deferred maketh the heart sick. Hope and faith in God keep you going when there is nothing else. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 03:59
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Absolutely amazing.
I posted this because of your 'bellyaching' all over the place about the ACLU and wanted to show you that they are actually there to protect my rights from getting further infringed upon by people trying to have their beliefs control my reality. You call my not being able to testify in a court of law on my own behalf because I'm an atheist in those seven states bellyaching? You can't be paying attention or you really don't want the equalities you claim you do.
The argument with adding In God We Trust to coins in 1864 and to dollar bills in 1957 was to show, yet again, that this country was not created as a Christian Nation or any sort of theocracy. This country was founded by peoples tired of their government, not missionaries looking for new savages to convert.
Those nuts you speak of have the same connection to their God that you have to yours but because it's not your religion you make less of it. The bottom line is that people who think they can actually communicate with God occasionally get a jammed transmisson. Soemtimes you get a Jihadist who blows himself up to take out a subway full of people, sometimes it's a Catholic priest who thinks he gets the OK to touch children the wrong way, and sometimes
it's a Christian extremist who blows up an abortion clinic killing a sizable group of adults in the name of saving an unborn child. Every once in a while, it's a real special case like the Zodiac Killer who thinks he's building an army for God because that's what the voices told him. How do you expect me to believe anyone has a 'relationship' with someone who can't be seen, heard, or understood? Maybe we'll see you on the news someday Tim; what do the voices tell you?
He implies that Christians are trying to rewrite history. A good example of that is your opinion that pilgrims came here for religious reasons instead of the truth which was always accepted to be political reasons.
The list including George Washington was of the founders who did not want one religion favored over another to be the basis of this country or how it was run. He says nothing for or against GW's personal beliefs or the beliefs of others in that list.
It seems to me that religious types don't love anyone who isn't part of their particular group which is why you guys literally 'have a heaven for your friends and a hell for your enemies'. With an atheist you may get a spirited discussion, some of us might try and make you see our way of thinking, and others just abstain from these types of discussions altogether, but one thing is certain; we don't condemn anyone for what they believe in mystical matters. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 04:10
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If I'm not mistaken, we're all adults here. In the spirit of this thread and to see how much you really want freedom of speech I'm posting a few funny vids that fit. There is some pretty coarse language but it's actually part of the act where it appears.
Comedians make up a majority of my personal heroes because they are usually the most honest people we can hear.
Let's kick it off with Eddie Izzard;
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 04:20
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Bill Hicks...
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 04:27
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George Carlin.
Try and argue with this guy....I dare ya.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 04:36
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The sweatiest wookie alive...Robin Williams.
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But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 11:49
zod69
nice clips. especially Carlin.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 12:05
zod69
hey pakratmak, do you watch "The Riches?" i ask because eddie izzard is the star.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 12:05
zod69
hey pakratmak, do you watch "The Riches?" i ask because eddie izzard is the star.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 15:23 Last Edited By: Tim
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Quote: The argument with adding In God We Trust to coins in 1864 and to dollar bills in 1957 was to show, yet again, that this country was not created as a Christian Nation or any sort of theocracy.
Whose closer to the date the nation was founded, we living in 2007, or 1864 and 1957?
Don't you think they being closer to the founding than we would have a better idea of what the country was founded on? What makes liberals in 2007 more knowledgable than earlier Americans?
Quote: You call my not being able to testify in a court of law on my own behalf because I'm an atheist in those seven states bellyaching
You think that it might have anything to do with the inability of an atheist to swear to God on the Bible as is tradition in courts?
Quote: it's not your religion you make less of it.
Wait a minute you can infer they are loones by blowing themselves up but because I believe in worshipping God in a Sunday morning church service that makes me unqualified to judge what's crazy or not? Like I've said before the devil doesn't play by the rules. He's got fake religions all around that tend to make conversations with atheist difficult which also includes nut jobs, perverts, and wackos that claim to be in favor with God while doing unspeakable acts. You ever think a priest that hurt a child might just be a fake? Somebody just looking for an easy buck or a little security. Life is much more complicated than, whoops I saw a Christian do something bad so therefore all Christians must be evil and fake as well. That's very narrow thinking for folks that love to be so broad minded.
Quote: what do the voices tell you?
I read the Bible dude, and use my common sense while praying for wisdom to understand it all.
Quote: pilgrims came here for religious reasons instead of the truth which was always accepted to be political reasons
Name a source please. A neutral source if possible.
Quote: who did not want one religion favored over another to be the basis of this country
This is where you fail to put yourself into their times. During their day in their field of vision religion would have been anything protestant primarily. There are countless times when our early leaders referred to God or inferred we were a Christian nation but what they didn't want is an official denomination. They believed it important to teach kids about God in school, but they wouldn't have believed in forcing any specific denominational practice on citizens.
Quote: It seems to me that religious types don't love anyone who isn't part of their particular group which is why you guys literally 'have a heaven for your friends and a hell for your enemies'
Well let me enlighten you then. God made the rules we didn't, and if we didn't believe that what would be the point? Believing on Jesus Christ as God's Son and that He payed the penalty for sin is something anybody of any race, country, etc can do. But God just doesn't give any other way to heaven.
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
I guess you'd have to blame Jesus for being so specific and not allowing for 500 ways to heaven. Think about it though. Why would God allow his Son to die if they were already tons of other ways to get to heaven. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 15:39
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In American history when things got rough, America prayed. Is it then not logical to assume when things are as good as they are today that we owe the Almighty prayers of thanks?
Examples of George Washington's perspective toward God.
I now make it my earnest prayer that God would have you, and the State over which you preside, in his holy protection; that he would incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government, to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for their fellow-citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for brethren who have served in the field; and finally that he would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation.
April 30, 1789
Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations and whose providential aide can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes; and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge.
In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States.
Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their United government, the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities, from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established, without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which them past seem to presage.
These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me I trust in thinking, that there are none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free Government can more auspiciously commence.
We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained; and since the preservation of sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered as deeply, perhaps finally, staked of the experiment...
I shall take my present leave; but not without resorting once more to the Benign Parent of the Human Race, in humble supplication that, since He has been pleased to favor the American people with opportunities for deliberating in perfect tranquility, and dispositions for deciding with unparalleled unanimity on a form of government for the security of their union and the advancement of their happiness, so His divine blessings may be equally conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate consultations and the wise measures on which the success of this Government must depend.
You see you ought to be looking up what our founding fathers actually said vs trying to get a historical perspective from comedians. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 16:12
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Carlin Video
I wasn't really going to comment on the videos in fears I'd write so much you wouldn't read it all, but you dared me.
First it's easy for a comedian to stand up and argue a point with smart aleck B.S while no one is standing next to him to challenge what he is saying.
He's just bringing up the same tired old atheistic themes. God couldn't love us or he wouldn't have created a hell. But God created hell initially for the devil. Man was going to live forever without fear of hell till man disobeyed. God loved man so he gave his Son and all He asks in return is the we accept his Son's sacrafice for what we are guilty of.
It's not a hard thing that God asks of us. Plus God doesn't want anybody in heaven that doesn't want to be there with Him anyway. Can you blame Him?
God is not an invisible man. This is just a childish over simplification.
Money - he's getting this argument based on fake tv preachers that real Christians can't stand. Real God fearing believers accept offerings that go to sending real missionaries to other countries, or pay for the electricity and maintenance to keep the church going. I haven't seen any fundamental Bible believing preachers driving around TN in a ferrari.
Carlin hasn't read the Bible so his opinion isn't worth much. He's complaining about the shape of the world. That's covered in the punishment caused by sin in Genesis. Can't blame God for the effects of sin. Most problems in the world are caused by man.
Carlin appears to be a bitter man probably blaming God for anything bad in his life.
Bottom line comedians are not the way to develop your idealogy in life. I'll admit it's hard to argue with Carlin because his assumptions are so child like. He skims the surface of everything and comes up with basic conclusions, but you know in reality life is a lot more complicated than that especially when you are dealing with deeply held spiritual beliefs. Some things are simple in life. I feel that libs tend to take anything simple and make it complex while over simplifying the complex, but that's just me. But are you going to base your beliefs on how funny the delivery was from the comedian of your choice? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 16:18
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Note to Robin, Jesus had half brothers. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 16:42
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Tim, the date the phrase was added being closer to now is not an argument, it's another non-sequitor. The country was not created as a theocracy.
I can swear on your bible in court. Now tell me why exactly do I have to? You glance over my rights again.
Neutral sources for the idea that the pilgrims came here for political reasons over religious one? Anyone who graduated high school and actually passed history.
We both live in this time so you are no closer to that 'field of vision' than I am. Our country was founded to not be or become a theocracy regardless of which founder believed in which religion. Where do you get that they wanted their kids taught about God in school? In those days parents actually raised their kids and taught them about religion themselves and the rest was left for the church to handle. You seem to want that more than they could. You saying that they wouldn't force one denomination over another complements them not wanting it there at all. The reason I say this is that they would have to pick one to teach about wouldn't they? How would you like your kids to be learning about the Tora or Kuran in your public school?
Again we go back to 'the bible says so' with this line about God made the rules. Sorry, that doesn't hold water by me. You think you're quoting Jesus but let's be honest, you're quoting your bible and not the man himself.
You are not the way and the light Tim, it's not your job to enlighten me. Believing that Jesus did something for everyone who hasn't even been born yet is the same type of thinking that makes it possible for suicide bombers to complete their missions. I have no need to get to heaven as I don't believe in the place, which is apparently why I don't just swallow the apparent lies.
If you take everything in the bible literally, you have no problem with us all being the product of incest, right? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 16:46
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As for the George Washington bit;
It may prove what he did if he did write it, not what the nation did.
It still doesn't prove that prayer works, that he was 'bulletproof', or that God exists. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 16:47
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Zod, I have seen the Riches in response to both your questions. He's a talented guy. I think he was also in Lock, Stock & Two Smoking Barrels and I remember him doing a couple of episodes of Whose Line Is It Anyway. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 16:57
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Hmm.
Comedians are there to make us laugh, not to debate.
How do you know Carlin has read the bible? This must be the same connection that you have with other people where you know their intentions, beliefs, and knowledge even when they're dead. He probably knows the bible better then you.
If God's not invisible, then why can't anyone see him? Wait. You don't think you can see God do you? I'm not talking about that flaky stance of 'I see God in everything' here. You think you can really hear and see the almighty?
Where do you get this bitterness that Carlin supposedly has from? He's doing a standup routine which is actually funny if you're not hoisted on a pulpit.
Sin changed the shape of the world? WTF are you talking about?
My beliefs are based on my owns thoughts of any subject. I don't blindly follow anyone and just accept whatever I'm told. I leave that up to sheep. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 20 Aug 2007 17:47
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Quote: Neutral sources for the idea that the pilgrims came here for political reasons over religious one? Anyone who graduated high school and actually passed history.
No source no point. Remember you were absolutely convinced that cockroaches could develop immunity through evolution. Which by the way I did greatly appreciate it when you posted that source on the cockroaches even when it went against your original point. We all gain intellectually from such actions. You earned my respect on that one.
Quote: We both live in this time so you are no closer to that 'field of vision' than I am.
Yeah, but I'm taking into consideration the mind sets of individuals in the past by their actions instead of trying to discount the obvious by reinterpreting history through modern sensibilities.
Quote: Where do you get that they wanted their kids taught about God in school?
It's a known fact that many of our famous colleges were originally Christian. It's also known that prayer in school was not banned till last century and evolution was banned from being taught in school, correct? So it stands to reason logically that since the beginnings of America God was being taught in school does it not. Not a specific denominationl practice but daily prayers, reading of the Bible, and the creation story were a part of the daily life of school children. Have you never heard of the use of the Bible in early America schools to teach reading for instance?
Quote: you're quoting your bible and not the man himself.
So what are you telling me that the book that was originally written about Jesus should be discarded for exactly what historical reference might I ask?
Quote: You are not the way and the light Tim, it's not your job to enlighten me. Believing that Jesus did something for everyone who hasn't even been born yet is the same type of thinking that makes it possible for suicide bombers to complete their missions. I have no need to get to heaven as I don't believe in the place, which is apparently why I don't just swallow the apparent lies.
Now hold on a second. I said Jesus was the way the truth, and the light. I was quoting Jesus not me. You are using Rosie O'donnel logic if you believe there is any relationship to a bomber and me going to church on Sunday, or quoting Jesus. Come on man get real. Christians have nothing in common with muslim extremist other than we are all human beings. Their religion is a different philosophy altogether. We don't even share the same book for that matter. You say you don't swallow lies. Just how do you determine truth? You know the easiest way to hide something is in plain site, right? Well the truth is right there but it's got all kinds of look alikes posted all along the sides. Another mistake atheist make is to look at men and not look to God. If you look at me long enough I'm sure you could discount Christianity as fake because I'm flawed, but God isn't. So take some time research the bible a couple of minutes here and there listen to a couple of fundamental preachers and compare notes. It couldn't kill you to keep asking questions outside of the box of atheism. Don't close yourself in.
Quote: If you take everything in the bible literally, you have no problem with us all being the product of incest, right?
I have a problem with modern day incest of course, but God didn't deem it a sin till around Moses day. So it wasn't wrong before then. That icky nasty feeling we all have toward it, is because God put it there when he called it sin and commanded us not to do it.
Quote: It still doesn't prove that prayer works, that he was 'bulletproof', or that God exists.
I could quote every founding father from now on, and I bet you'd still have an excuse as to why we should not be a country that depends on God. You have all the proof you need that God exists in creation. Just walk around outside especially in a park or somewhere where there is nature.
Quote: Sin changed the shape of the world?
Well as someone that has read the bible like all my life, I can tell you that sin is the cause for all of the world's misery. Death entered into the world after man rebelled in the garden of Eden. I thought even atheist were familiar with the story. Adam and Eve sinned ate the fruit God said not to. All God wanted was to give man free will. A choice of his will or man's will. Man chose his will instead of God's. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 21 Aug 2007 02:41
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Quote: Yeah, but I'm taking into consideration the mind sets of individuals in the past by their actions instead of trying to discount the obvious by reinterpreting history through modern sensibilities.
You're a mind reader? You're no closer to knowing their mindsets than knowing what the mindsets of your own neighbors are. You can't tell what someone is thinking by reading something about or even by them.
If you discard your bible you don't need to replace it at all really... I said you were quoting the book and not the man, meaning the accuracy of that quote is questionable at best.
I never equated your going to church and anything else. I was talking about people who are delusional enough to actually think God talks to them and the absolutely horrid rotten crap that happens from these lunatics hearing things.
I don't think Christianity is flawed because you're flawed Tim. I think Christianity is flawed because of Christianity. I'll give you a list of questions shortly.
So incest was ok back then because God didnt tell anyone it was wrong yet? We have hit a new watermark. That is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read anywhere. You tell me that I can't possibly know right and wrong without your good book and you give a grandfather clause to one of the worst things a person could do to someone else short of violence. Another reason to be glad I'm not part of the flock.
I only need one reason to not have a country that depends on God. He doesn't exist. If I needed a second I would offer his followers; one from every religion that thinks they have the 'one true God'. Maybe Mattro will draw up a Royal Rumble with those characters for me. Walking around in nature does not prove there is a God. Your bible saying so doesn't make it so.
When I read your original quote it seemed to be saying that sin made the world not be flat or something. So either you weren't clear enough or I misunderstood you and you have my apology if it's the latter. We are certainly familiar with the story of Adam & Eve. I'm also familiar with the idea of free will. To that end I have a few questions as mentioned prior.
Why did he tell them they couldn't do that one particular thing if they had free will?
Who exactly passed this story down?
Why are you prideful enough to think you know what God thinks or wants? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 21 Aug 2007 04:51
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Quote: You're a mind reader? You're no closer to knowing their mindsets than knowing what the mindsets of your own neighbors are. You can't tell what someone is thinking by reading something about or even by them.
You have to take into account the times they lived in. The facts surrounding them, the general attitudes of the time. It doesn't give you a mind read, but it's not that hard to read people in general.
Quote: I never equated your going to church and anything else.
Sounded to me like you were lumping people of all religions together including those professed by maniacs and murderers.
Quote: So incest was ok back then because God didnt tell anyone it was wrong yet? We have hit a new watermark. That is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read anywhere.
You see your conviction that it is wrong proves that a higher authority put that feeling within you. How else can you explain it especially if we are all just animals? Animals don't know the difference between right and wrong do they?
Quote: Why did he tell them they couldn't do that one particular thing if they had free will?
What's free will without a choice? He didn't force them to not eat. He could have. He gave them a choice eat and die, or obey me and live. They rebelled. Like we rebel today.
Quote: Who exactly passed this story down?
Most scholars believed Moses wrote Genesis, and before you say it. Why would he have to be there when God is giving him the text to write?
Quote: Why are you prideful enough to think you know what God thinks or wants?
I can read.
Look the Bible proved it's accuracy to me, by things that happened in my own life. I learned with experience that all those rules and regulations in the bible could have saved me a lot of heart ache in my life. I think it could save a lot of others from a lot of pain and needless suffering as well.
I want to ask you a question. I may have asked this in the past but here goes again. Why don't you ask God to show himself somehow in your life if he's real? You got nothing to lose. Nobody will know. You could pray it in your mind and nobody would be the wiser. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 21 Aug 2007 21:19
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You still weren't there Tim. There is nobody from that time for you to read personally. I'm sure it's comforting to think that this country was a Christian project instead of a political one, but evidence says otherwise.
There are no religions professed by maniacs and murderers except perhaps the born again Christians in prisons everywhere.
My conviction that incest is wrong comes from knowing where not to put my pecker, not from a higher power. I'm pretty sure your bible doesn't point out specifically sex with children; did the writers forget it, do they condone it, or were they engaged in it themselves? If it isn't written in the bible meaning that God doesn't call it a sin, you're ok with it?
Eat and die or obey and live...... Sounds like a real tyrant, and total fiction.
I thought most scholars believed Paul wrote most of the bible including Genesis. When God was giving Moses his text, was there a little burning bush next to the writing table?
Maybe the things that happened in your life are open to interpretation and don't prove anything mystical at all. Maybe you've made your own association by looking for it where it didn't really exist. Maybe there is a God(don't fall out of your chair-I'm open to the possibility but there is no way I believe it right now-sorry). I have to go with you making that connection instead of the higher being, as your experiences don't prove anything to anyone but you.
I've already told you, prayer is a waste of time to me. Since you and the big guy are so close, you tell him I'm like to see him. I really would. He's got a lot to answer for. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 21 Aug 2007 21:37
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Quote: I'm sure it's comforting to think that this country was a Christian project instead of a political one, but evidence says otherwise.
Please by all means present it my left wing friend.
Quote: There are no religions professed by maniacs and murderers except perhaps the born again Christians in prisons everywhere.
Huh? Weren't we just talking about muslim extremist blowing up themselves and others?
Quote: My conviction that incest is wrong comes from knowing where not to put my pecker, not from a higher power
Way to completely ignore what I said. Don't you ever think a little deeper than that? Like how is it you know right from wrong? If it was your parents teachings or whatever, how did they know? Answer the question please. No silly answers or easy way outs. I'd like you to really think about this one.
Quote: Eat and die or obey and live...... Sounds like a real tyrant, and total fiction.
Can the ones that are created tell the one who created what to do?
Quote: I thought most scholars believed Paul wrote most of the bible including Genesis.
No Paul wrote a lot of the New Testament. They were letters to churches he wrote primarily from my understanding while he was in prisons for daring to preach the word of God.
Quote: . Since you and the big guy are so close, you tell him I'm like to see him. I really would. He's got a lot to answer for.
Sounds like a little bit of bitterness. I have prayed God would see fit to show himself to you.
Quote: Maybe the things that happened in your life are open to interpretation and don't prove anything mystical at all.
Well ok, if I told you I saw a car crash. Would you believe me? I'm just a witness of what I've seen in my life. I've experienced prayers answered usually in the nick of time after I thought it was all over with. God helped me quit smoking. He gave me a good wife. He's helped me make a living. I have a lot to be thankful for. When I did things my way. I didn't have anything, but despair. Everything doesn't always go perfect mind you, but then I don't think it does for anyone, and I'm certainly not a poster child for godliness. I wouldn't be surprised if you've lived a better life than I have, but thank God the good Lord is merciful even to people like me. So I'm just telling you what I know. I think your problem is that you have a very hard time entertaining the notion that anybody who believes in God knows their butt from a hole in the ground. Believe me I can drive a car, fix lunch, and even do simple math. I'm not near as idiotic as you think I am. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 22 Aug 2007 01:57
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Boston tea party, Common Sense, and the constitution.
Muslim extremists like the Taliban are not the real representation of that religion any more than those convicts that suddenly find Jesus in hopes of early release really represent you.
Thinking about having sex with someone you are related to makes my stomach turn. Part of it is knowing where mutants come from, part of it is just knowing. It is just that simple.
It's not bitterness. It was feeling ignored that turned me toward the truth in the first place. Thanks for the prayer just the same.
Tim, in all sincerity, I think nothing but good thoughts of you. You did say something that was awfully stupid in my opinion in one of these posts, but I don't think you idiotic. I dont think religious people are dumb by any means, just misguided, which I am absolutely certain is what they think I am. Fair is fair after all.
Back to the point now. Why won't you take the credit for those good things you have? How do any of those good or bad things possibly prove a higher power? I just quit smoking about 2 months ago myself Tim. I didn't need a higher power, some predestined chain of events, or a prayer session. I simply made up my mind and did it. I really don't think I'm a better person than you or anyone else Tim; so why isn't it possible you quit smoking all by yourself?
I've noticed nobody tries to explain how God exists using the west nile virus or mad cow disease or hurricane Katrina; They only seem to use the nice stuff. Why is that? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 22 Aug 2007 15:42 Last Edited By: Tim
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Ok for one, I know my own personality, and I can't quit addictive behaviour without help from above. I can't even quit drinking coca cola. Caffeine is too powerful a substance for me to stop taking so I know I had help from God to quit smoking cigerettes.
Quote: Muslim extremists like the Taliban are not the real representation of that religion any more than those convicts that suddenly find Jesus in hopes of early release really represent you.
In those cases how many of those convicts faking religion would go around professing Jesus after their release? If they did of course they would be sincere, and not likely to be violent or repeat offenders. On the other hand the extremist muslims are using their religion as an excuse to kill. Now I know you'll bring up abortion bombs, but in all honesty I don't that's happened in over a decade. Extremist muslims is something we are dealing with here and now.
I don't know precisely what muslims teach, but I do know their radical brand believes that they are the only religion that should survive. Where a hell fire and brimstone Baptist might risk all to witness to someone. The extremist muslim would risk all to kill a non-believer.
I like to give folks the benefit of the doubt mind you. I have no problem loving a muslim like I do any other non-Christian that needs Jesus, but I wonder if the extremist muslim is the real muslim or the moderate muslim is the real deal. The moderates don't seem to care enough that their over the top brothers are giving them a bad rep. The ones I hear the most telling me moderates are the real deal aren't even muslim. Have you heard many moderates take a stand against extemism?
One other thing loving a muslim to me doesn't mean kissing their butt like Bill Maher wants to do in fear of losing his own hide to a radical. I'm admittedly too proud for that. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 03:35
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Ok, if I actually go along with you not being able to quit without help from God, you're going to have to admit you started smoking because of Him. God himself put that first one in your hand as a test of your free will and then handed you a light right?
I know that's not going to happen, so I am going to give you the full credit you won't take for yourself. It's a grand phenominal task to quit smoking and I am speaking from experience. I have no doubt you could repeat that success with soda or anything else of your choosing. I am really proud of you Tim.
Someone professing Jesus isn't necessarily sincere. From my personal experiences, they are actually rarely sincere. This is not about present company of course.
You are aware that the terrorists are comprised of more than 'savage Muslims' yes? It's quite clear you don't know what they teach. Muslims are a peaceful bunch and should not have these animals stain their otherwise peaceful practices. Some of these terrorists call themselves Muslims which is a lie. If you really want to show a Muslim love, don't expect them to need Jesus- They're aware of him but that is not who they follow and to suggest such would be an insult. Suggesting they only come in the two flavors of extreme and moderate is actually an insult to you.
It's funny. I remember a story about a guy in the bible who was really proud.... __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 15:25
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Quote: God himself put that first one in your hand as a test of your free will and then handed you a light right?
No a bunch of rebellious teenagers did originally, and I was dumb enough to follow the crowd. I wanted to be cool, and smart like the other cool guys. Taught me in the long run that following the crowd isn't always the smart way to go. You know.
Quote: don't expect them to need Jesus- They're aware of him but that is not who they follow and to suggest such would be an insult.
Example: If that line of reasoning were the best policy there wouldn't be all those anti-smoking ads. After all smokers are aware of the dangers of smoking. They might be insulted if you tell them to quit. Of course they might live longer but that's beside the point. I don't tell people about Jesus just for my health you know. I really think people who accept Jesus are happier, may live longer by not getting into trouble, and have a home in heaven. Heck, if I knew a way for everyone to win the lottery, and the world still function I'd tell everyone about that too wouldn't you. The only thing wrong with the lottery scenario though is everyone would quit work.
Quote: Suggesting they only come in the two flavors of extreme and moderate is actually an insult to you.
You know there are extemist out there that are full blown muslim. That's not even up for debate. You watched the video of the radicals stepping on the flag.
I still say you don't hear enough from moderate muslims denouncing their extremist counterparts. You'd think it would be a big deal for nothing else for P.R. purposes. Don't you think? Still seems to me like the only ones shouting how moderate muslims are aren't even muslims. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 16:15
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So, if God didn't make you start smoking then God didn't make you stop smoking. Real simple.
In my case I was just surrounded by everyone who did smoke; my parents, their friends, my friends. Don't know about the cool part but it probably was about fitting in; 'everybody is doing it'. Another fine example of it being better to think for yourself. Smoking because everyone else was is the dumbest thing I've ever done.
The anti-smoking ads are only there(and I mean ONLY) to alleviate legal costs for the tobacco manufacturers. Don't believe anything else that these companies all of a sudden have a conscience and don't want customers.
If anyone figured out how to actually win the lottery with full or near perfect accuracy they would either change the lottery or stop holding it.
Just because you seem to think that the only path to happiness is by following Jesus, doesn't mean anyone else has to. Muslims don't and Atheists don't. Move on already.
The extremists and terrorists are NOT real Muslims. Anyone practicing or preaching violence is a phony who is not following the teachings of Allah. As for people not coming forth to denounce the terrorists, it's because you're not listening. How many times can people say 'they don't represent us'? Why should they care about PR? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 16:28 Last Edited By: Tim
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Quote: So, if God didn't make you start smoking then God didn't make you stop smoking. Real simple.
How do you figure that from what I said? You're one of these 2 plus 2 equals 5 guys aren't you?
Quote: Smoking because everyone else was is the dumbest thing I've ever done.
Which is why I never just blindly follow the logic presented by the crowd especially when it's political in nature and can change every year.
Quote: If anyone figured out how to actually win the lottery with full or near perfect accuracy they would either change the lottery or stop holding it.
That wasn't the point.
Quote: Just because you seem to think that the only path to happiness is by following Jesus, doesn't mean anyone else has to.
He's the only way to heaven.
Quote: The extremists and terrorists are NOT real Muslims. Anyone practicing or preaching violence is a phony who is not following the teachings of Allah.
So you're an expert on the Koran now.
Quote: As for people not coming forth to denounce the terrorists, it's because you're not listening. How many times can people say 'they don't represent us'?
Find me 3 instances of an actual muslim saying that. Wait I think I might remember one, but like I said it would have to be 90-95 percent of non-muslims telling me what muslims are supposed to believe. I want them to tell me. They should go on the news. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Aug 2007 17:02
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Again, if you won't credit God with starting to smoke than creditting Him with quitting makes no sense whatsoever. He either did both or neither.
Quote: He's the only way to heaven.
I don't believe in Heaven either, so the path doesn't matter. You have your beliefs Tim, others have them too.
Quote: So you're an expert on the Koran now.
I'm no more of an expert than you are Tim. Just not closed minded enough to lump them all together as extremists and terrorists when I not only know some personally but just plain know better. You're letting your disdain for their beliefs overshadow the people themselves. Nice work for someone who's been 'ordered' to love everyone.
Muslims telling you what they believe on the news are as plentiful as Christians on the news telling us what they believe. Nonetheless, I'll see what I can find. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
especially Carlin.
I'm not near as idiotic as you think I am.
