Here's kind of a kid video, but it makes a valid point. A description of a dinosaur is in the book of Job even though evolutionist insist that dinosaurs weren't around at the same time as humans.
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Posted: 25 Aug 2007 18:54
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I'd like to point out that the 24-hour day is a human invention, and we can't really measure how long days were at the time of creation. Therefore, it's altogether plausible that the dinosaurs were created, dominated, and went extinct all on the 6th day. But of course, God would not want this to be scientifically provable, and that way it must be taken on faith!
GOParty
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Posted: 25 Aug 2007 21:17
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Anything is possible GoParty, but I'm betting on the general idea that dinosaurs were around till probably some time after the flood. The idea that days weren't 24 hours in the Genesis account has come about in large part by Christians trying to comform to the evolutionist vision of a very old earth. Keep in mind the main reason evolutionist cling to the old earth story is because it's partly how they attempt to explain the process of evolution. They think if you add enough years to the mix you can evolve monkeys into men.
Is it possible that the days weren't 24 hours in Genesis. Anything is possible. Not probable though because if that were true why wouldn't God simply had Moses write Genesis with descriptions of weeks or centuries, or whatever instead of days. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 01:19
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How old is the earth Tim? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 01:32
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I'm guessing around 6-12 K, remember I don't believe the carbon dating tests have not always been very accurate like in dating the newly formed rocks of the Mt. St. Helens eruptions.
Your lucky I'm being civil pakrat. I know you are going to come back with something. I'm sitting here listening to the Land of confusion song you posted on supermantv.net. I'm ready to go kick some heads in man, this song rocks! I need to download that for mp3 player. So don't mess me with me. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 01:58
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I own all their albums. Bring it tough guy.
The earth only being 12,000 years old? If you want to kick someone's head, start by knocking some sense into your own. Ignoring the comedian you call a drunk to try and discount his act that makes fun of the ignorant; where do fossils come from? Carbon dating may be a little off, a decade or so and occasional mistakes happen, but missing by thousands of years if not millions? Your bible doesn't say how long the earth has been here does it?
So you ignore science and your bible isn't even giving you the answer; where did you get that figure from? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 02:54
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Here's some more sparring music for ya. Dogs of War by Pink Floyd over some appropriate footage.
I thought this more appropriate here while I listed Disturbed's version of Shout on the other. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 03:26
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I agree with Tim earth is only 6 or 7 thousand years old my church believes the same thing and carbon dating isn't worth a toot, i don't remember where they showed me it but i will try to find it..... __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 26 Aug 2007 20:47
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Quote: I own all their albums. Bring it tough guy
You need to email me that song in mp3 format or else I'm going to reach in through the internet and kick your butt through the computer screen.
Quote: If you want to kick someone's head, start by knocking some sense into your own.
See there you again. You act like I'm disrespectful to others opinions, but you and Zod are always playing high school trying to attack my intelligence for not automatically going in goose step to your atheistic views.
Quote: Carbon dating may be a little off, a decade or so and occasional mistakes happen, but missing by thousands of years if not millions?
It had rocks a few decades old at mt. st. helens as thousands of years old.
Quote: Your bible doesn't say how long the earth has been here does it?
It doesn't give any indication it's millions of years old. Going by the general info on generations and so forth scholars come up with that estimation. Also I realize that evolutionist need the earth to be millions of years old or they feel their theory won't work. Won't work anyway, but they think it's makes more sense with millions of years.
Don't evolutionist even claim human civilization is only a few thousand years old. I think they go with more like 20 thousand years or so. You can correct me if I'm wrong on that.
On the song I'm thinking it would have worked for a episode of Miami Vice. Not so sure it makes me want to lift heavier weights or not though.
Quote: I agree with Tim earth is only 6 or 7 thousand years old my church believes the same thing and carbon dating isn't worth a toot, i don't remember where they showed me it but i will try to find it.....
Yeah, the more documentation we can get the better. thanks __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 04:29
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Anytime someone starts talking about doing violent things, I return the favor. Standard policy. I'll say it nicer. Accepting that it is not perfect and mistakes are made, there is in my opinion too much evidence that says this planet has been here for millions of years and that is what I choose to accept. This is also reinforced by the usual argument of what is written in the bible is the absolute gospel being disempowered by saying nothing directly contrary to scientific findings. People may choose to play detective and try to create some number based on what is given in the bible but the bible has many gaps and serious bridges of logic defiance. That lack of material cannot possibly offer an even approximate timeline worthy enough to offer as 'truth', at least in my opinion. Science wins this one but it was a valiant battle and we thank you for being such good sports. We are all better for having been here for this. Good luck and Godspeed!
Nice can be awfully longwinded can't it? I've been playful if not pointed for the most part guys. Check out the mean answer;
WTF is wrong with you????? 6K? You high or something?
That song was for our kicking match Tim, not your workout. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 16:57
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ok so if dinosuars are a million years old how did they happen to find one with muscle tissue still on it and was still mushy?? Somewhere in Brazil or South America I think.. don't tell me tar or molasses preserved the tissue or something dumb like that...carbon dating is wrong when things turn old eventually they turn to dust especially in an oxygen envionment.Nothing last a million years if that was the case,all the land erosion that we have all the mountains in the world would be flat.Oh by the way PAT you keep asking how come you don't see GOD?? You can't and never will no man shall ever see him read your Bible I TIM 6:16 HEB11:27 1 TIM 1:17 John4:24
God needed a body to carry out his plan of redemption. He had this plan all worked out and thought out and had gathered all his thoughts toghter in His mind. It was a part of Him it was His mind, it actually was Him. This thought, this plan this mind which was God Himself, became an expression, that is ,He became the body of Jesus Christ when he was born,and became the only begotten Father.IN other words GOD made himself a body and put himself in that body, don"t ask why he is GOD he can make and break any rules your little pea brain can imagine...
he does not have to answer to you period, you are just a man. Just like the rest of us so I say you believe what you believe and I'LL believe what i believe I wasn't pushing anything on you... If you die and go to Hell and if i'm not there beside you I'll look down and pray for you.. I'll pray for you now heck I hope you find the Lord someday Pat and Zod >>>Trust me I used to be just like you both,your both still young one day maybe if i pray hard enough you'll wake up.. I used to resist the Lord at one time asking why this why that, how could you do this to me blah blah blah I don't like Christians the whole thing, If God want you he will work on you and eventually God get what he wants... __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 17:08
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They found a mushy dinosaur with muscle tissue on it somewhere in Brazil or South America, you think?
What?
Quote: how come you don't see GOD?? You can't and never will
Quote: read your Bible
Quote: don"t ask why he is GOD he can make and break any rules your little pea brain can imagine...
Quote: he does not have to answer to you period, you are just a man
Quote: I hope you find the Lord someday
Quote: God get what he wants
and the line that ties it all together:
Quote: I wasn't pushing anything on you
Do you live right under power lines? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 18:32
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Quote: Do you live right under power lines?
See humor is good, and I get that, but all you are doing is about the same as a kid saying, " I know you are but what am I."
Come on ain't you got anything better than that? I mean in the way of a logical argument. Intertwine the humor with some sort of logical argument. Your insult always seems to go after the person making the comment vs going after the comment the person made. Just lame stuff that's about the same as saying, "you're a big dummy". Go after the logic, or the statement being made. Don't just do what is basically name calling. Base it on some reality. Like Zod is for drug use. I could say Zod's ideas are warped because he takes drugs. Just an example. That would be based on what Zod actually said. Now if I just said Zod was born dumb, then that would be insulting and not addressing what he actually said. It would be a worthless argument. See.
Am I wrong here or what? You tell me. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 18:51
Captain America
Bottom line is that no one is going to have a road to damascus moment here. Zod's not gonna find god (that god, at least) and tim's not gonna find science.
i do think a good point of middle ground is found in deism, which figured prominently in the founding of our country, as many of the founding fathers subscribed to it.
It is the idea that God exists and can be sought out through science and reason. It uses the Bible as the start of seeking God, but not the end-all.
Quote: It is the idea that God exists and can be sought out through science and reason.
That much sounds reasonable.
Quote: It uses the Bible as the start of seeking God, but not the end-all.
Well I believe the Bible is God's word, and shouldn't be contradicted, but I find nothing wrong with studying archeology, and science to compare with the Bible.
I'm not against science. I'm against religion calling itself science like evolution. It's fake. I think science backs up the Bible. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 20:03
Captain America
How is evolution like religion?
I do think the Bible contains lots of history (mostly about the trials and tribulations of the Israelites and early Christians), but really little in the way of actual science.
What does it contain in that regard?
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 20:15
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Quote: Do you live right under power lines?
What ever you must be 10 yrs old! If you think your going to get me going ,your wrong I don't argue with children, I"LL just hope you find GOD instead.... This whole blah blah blah with you is pointless....You do these things to get people going. You sure are a big bad Billy ass on your little tikes computer... grow up child!!!! This is why parents need to scold there kids a little more often. I"m through wasting my time with you don't listen... think what you want, but ever time someone types somthing in here you attack instantly,do what you want, you have that right and so does everyone in here, all I hope for is you find the Lord ...that is it! Nothing else, there is no right or reason.
You are Right little one, everyone else is wrong I don't know what the world would do with all you smart know it all kids who have lived in this world a whole 35 seconds , and one day when you get out of your diappie and stop whipping snot on the back of your hand you will reliaze what it is like to be a grown up.... That's all you had " living under power lines"???
Quote: They found a mushy dinosaur with muscle tissue
OK what I meant to say was they had found a dinosuar with muscle tissue that was still moist, sorry i got alittle ahead of myself, if the dinosaur was a million yrs old in an oxygen enriched enviornment and the ground is full of moisture i doubt there would be anything left on the bone.... but science would say some bull like what????? __________________
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Posted: 27 Aug 2007 20:19
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PATrakmat are you muslim??? Just asking, no rhime or reason just curious is all... __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 20:39
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Quote: How is evolution like religion?
Well this is something I've been debating with pak and zod forever. My point is this. Evolution says everything started with a big bang right? Whenever I ask a evolutionist where did the matter or gases or whatever come from to create the necessary conditions for a big bang all I ever get is the run around. So thus it's logical to assume evolution could not have happened. No big bang, we are still at square one. It takes faith to believe in evolution not only to believe in the magic building blocks that just existed to create a big bang, but to believe millions of years can create all that we have now. Nothing equals nothing every time.
Take the eye which is much too complicated to be created by accident. It's like saying a digital camera formed over a million years. It's impossible.
So if it takes faith to accept evolution then how can evolutionist claim it's a science and creationism is not? Both are accepted on faith. Nobody can scientifically explain how absolutely zero nothingness started a huge explosion. It's a religion.
Quote: I do think the Bible contains lots of history (mostly about the trials and tribulations of the Israelites and early Christians), but really little in the way of actual science.
What does it contain in that regard?
Creationism is probably more about logical philsophy than science if you define science as something in a test tube. We walk outside and we see all of creation with all it's order. An entire planet hovering in space just the right distance from the sun to support life. A planet with just the right amount of oxyegen, water, etc etc. It screams designer.
By studying science however we can find elements that are presented in the Bible like the Grand Canyon which creationist believe was created in a massive flood. The way layers of coal are found seems to indicate a massive flood. Coal beds are too even usually to have been created by a little at a time the way evolutionist indicate. The Bible talks about blood being the source of life. Job describes a animal that resembles a dinosaur thus indicating man and dinosaurs were on the earth at the same time. That's definitely something evolutionist should look at. Remember back in those days we assume they weren't big into archeology digging up dino bones. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:10
Captain America
I guess I have to ask: Why couldn't have god created the universe in the Big Bang and used evolution as his means over the course of millions of years to create a world of his design?
In one of the vids posted, there is a full explanation of the development of the eye that starts with simple organisms with very basic eyes and then shows through fossil study and biology how the human eye did develop over time. As well, evolution explains how animals adapted to extreme changes to the environment.
There is no credible evidence that backs up a 6,000-to-12,000 year-old earth. There are traces from ancient peoples that are older than that.
If you have some, from a reputable source, I'd like to see it.
Well, Job may seen fossils: The Mediterranean region, which encompasses the Israel, Egypt, Greece, Italy — just about all of the peoples from which we derive our culture, is a seismic nightmare. Throughout parts of Greece, sheets of rock have been torn away due to earthquakes, revealing dinosaurs bones, and some theorize that that could be the source of the fantastic monsters in Greek history.
The near east has similar seismic activity and perhaps Job saw some, too.
In many cultures, there are ancient legends about dragons … coincidence? Or fossils?
Again, just saying belief in the Bible and evolution aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:18
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Quote: There is no credible evidence that
Quote: If you have some, from a reputable source, I'd like to see it.
backs up a 6,000-to-12,000 year-old earth. There are traces from ancient peoples that are older than that.
I'm trying i thought for sure in a bible study class they said it was there... NOw i'm not a hundredand one percent bible scholar don't claim to be either, I'm a younger christain too, even though i'm older then PAT or ZOd so bare with me i'm trying maybe i am wrong i'm human, but i do believe it is 6 or 7 thousand yrs old when i find it CAPTAIN i'll try to get it to you... give me some time i can't be here all the time, I coach hockey as well, and the season is starting this week so i'm a little busy... __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:23
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Cool, I appreciate that.
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:23
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Tim, look at Hockeyman's posts and tell me I was wrong. Seriously. He blasts me with all that theological nonsense and then says he's not pushing anything. He's calling me a child while acting like one and doesn't even know my age.
You'll notice my question wasn't answered either.
I'm an atheist Hockeyman.
Now a new question. How old are you Hockeyman? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:28
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Ok. If I have just jumped on anyone personally without warrant, I do apologize and will watch my posting from this point on. It's supposed to be friendly here and I will try to be more civil.
Call me a communist or equate me to one or tell me I have to believe what you believe and I can guarantee I will not be civil. Fair enough? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:30
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In keeping with the notion or a fair debate would someone please explain exactly what 'Creationism' is. What exact passages from the bible entail this whole 'ism'. Serious answers only please. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 21:34
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Quote: Why couldn't have god created the universe in the Big Bang and used evolution as his means over the course of millions of years to create a world of his design?
Well He could have but why wouldn't He told Moses that instead of the creation story. I mean Moses wrote in Genesis God created the heavens and the Earth by speaking it into existence.
Quote: In one of the vids posted, there is a full explanation of the development of the eye that starts with simple organisms with very basic eyes and then shows through fossil study and biology how the human eye did develop over time.
Look I can make a video on how a camera somehow got put together by the wind over millions of years and show diagrams, but it would just be my conception, and wouldn't make it anymore realistic.
Quote: evolution explains how animals adapted to extreme changes to the environment.
That's not evolution that just proves the animal had the ability in their dna to start out with. Pak proved this with a article on cockroaches. He was trying to prove cockroaches evolved to gain resistance to poison, but he found a scientific article that proved that some cockroaches had the restance built in already instead.
Quote: There are traces from ancient peoples that are older than that.
How much older? Not millions right? Talking a few thousand years right?
Quote: Well, Job may seen fossils:
Check it out sounds like a live dino to me.
Job 40:15-24
15 Behold now behemoth, F227 which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Quote: In many cultures, there are ancient legends about dragons … coincidence? Or fossils?
Good point. I'm inclined to believe there's more to it. Even if it wasn't a creatism vs evolution arguement it's fascinating in and of itself to think dinos might have been running around with biblical figures and perhaps...perhaps even knights etc. Nothings impossible in my book except for monkeys jumping out of a tree and turning into men. I don't think that one is very likely.
Quote: Again, just saying belief in the Bible and evolution aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
I think so because you see I feel that evolution wasn't created as much for science, but for man's tendency to rebel against the authority of God in their lives. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Quote: he found a scientific article that proved that some cockroaches had the restance built in already instead.
Yes, and it keeps getting glossed over that those roaches that have the immunity pass that factor down to their offspring granting them that particular immunity thus showing (as I've been saying all along) a very small example of evolution. The newborns are enhanced at a biological level by their predecessors.
Quote: a video on how a camera somehow got put together by the wind
As reasonable as someone(something) speaking things into existence? That development of the eye is not faith based and has elements of evidence to it and not just heresay.
Quote: Moses wrote in Genesis God created the heavens and the Earth by speaking it into existence.
Is this the entire theory of creationism or is there more you can add to it? I'm not gearing up for an attack or anything here. I sincerely want to know to try and see your side of it. If that above is all there is to it, I cannot walk that bridge of faith. If you have more please share it. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 22:12
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Quote: Job 40:15-24
15 Behold now behemoth, F227 which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Not as a mockery here but is there any chance that description is of an elephant or some other common creature, even an extinct one? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 27 Aug 2007 22:24
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Quote: elephant
Quote: He moveth his tail like a cedar
Don't jump me but an elephant has a tial about the size of a small 12'' ruler __________________
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
i'm telling you the MOAB will solve all our problems
