But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 03 Jul 2008 17:02
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Hmm that guy selling a book is one brick shy of a load if you ask me. Must have been his wife that changed his way of thinking.
You do know the founding of public schools in America was initially formed in America to make sure our citizens could read the Bible and understand it. That way our country would not make some of the great mistakes other countries had made.
Question: should these religious themes be shut out of school?
Love thy neighbor as thyself.
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not bear false witness
Honour thy father and thy mother
Our society needs rules that go to the heart of the matter. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 03 Jul 2008 17:51
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Quote: You do know the founding of public schools in America was initially formed in America to make sure our citizens could read the Bible and understand it. That way our country would not make some of the great mistakes other countries had made.
Last I checked our school system was a Prussian invention for creating good workers and soldiers. Check your own brick count.
Quote: should these religious themes be shut out of school?
Those are conscience issues. Just because you list commandments you invalidate your own question.
Quote: Our society
Right. 'OUR' society. Not yours, not Christian's, not Mine- all of us, OURS.
Please change the record as this one keeps skipping-I think it's broken. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 05 Jul 2008 16:22
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Quote: Those are conscience issues.
Yes they are, and should be one of the most important things we teach kids. You don't have to teach a kid to be a Baptist or Methodist to teach them murder is wrong, or any other Biblical standard. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 06 Jul 2008 04:50
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Where exactly is murder being taught as right? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 07 Jul 2008 13:43
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I was simply referring to your
Quote: conscience issues
statement as if the commandments were something that shouldn't be taught.
Kids these days are starving for some direction and morality. We should at least give them the basics. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 07 Jul 2008 19:53
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It's another debate and I'm not trying just to upset you here but your bible actually advocates murder in quite a few places-usually as a response to the commandments not being followed. That's called the grip of fear you'd have them taught by. The same grip of fear used when a seven year old learns about Hell and Hellfire from a concerned and righteous parent-it's called child abuse and you can keep that away from my kids, thank you very much. If that's how you were raised and you think it's the best way to teach your kids, I have no argument but I would hope that you really consider what you're doing before just doing it.
Kids need many things, good parents being the first on the list. They are the ones who will see to it that those kids get everything they need. It's not up to you or me or anyone else to determine what those kids need as long as they are in a safe and loving environment.
On another note-Christians do not get a monopoly on morality. Morality is a human creation based on a human's conscience, not something(anything) in print. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 10 Jul 2008 16:40
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Quote: your bible actually advocates murder
Define murder. Defending oneself, or executing a criminal? War?
Quote: The same grip of fear used when a seven year old learns about Hell and Hellfire from a concerned and righteous parent-it's called child abuse and you can keep that away from my kids, thank you very much.
I assure you I was not abused by going to church and learning that Jesus died for sinners so that I wouldn't have to go to hell. Telling people how to avoid calamity is not abuse. It's the opposite. If you knew someone was in a burning building would you tell them, or be afraid to hurt their feelings?
Quote: On another note-Christians do not get a monopoly on morality. Morality is a human creation based on a human's conscience, not something(anything) in print.
Do you believe our conscience just came into being somehow like everything else? I have a really hard time understanding how an evolutionist can separate morality from God. It's amazing to me. It really takes a lot of faith to be an atheist. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 10 Jul 2008 17:16
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Murder would be the taking of someone's life against their will and your 'laws' come with a price tag of murdering nonfollowers.
Quote: I assure you I was not abused by going to church and learning that Jesus died for sinners so that I wouldn't have to go to hell. Telling people how to avoid calamity is not abuse. It's the opposite. If you knew someone was in a burning building would you tell them, or be afraid to hurt their feelings?
I assure you that scaring the piss out of a child with images of the devil and torment and hellfire and nashing teeth is child abuse. Forcing a religion on them when they can barely making decisions for themselves is also abuse. Your defense might be 'look how I turned out' and unfortunately that also proves my defense.
A person in a burning building.....that is just not even applicable here. Find a better analogy.
Quote: Do you believe our conscience just came into being somehow like everything else?
It evolved from us being conscious beings. It's a social contract, not a divine creation.
Quote: I have a really hard time understanding how an evolutionist can separate morality from God. It's amazing to me. It really takes a lot of faith to be an atheist.
Evolutionists don't do anything concerning God, including making imaginary separations. It doesn't take faith to be an atheist, just the ability to think for oneself.
Whether or not you or I or anyone understand something or believe something or agree with something has never been and will never be a testament to the validity of it. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Jul 2008 16:04
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Quote: your 'laws' come with a price tag of murdering nonfollowers.
No that would be radical muslims. I've never heard of Christians running around blowing up buildings have you?
Quote: I assure you that scaring the piss out of a child with images of the devil and torment and hellfire and nashing teeth is child abuse.
Yet you probably wouldn't harp on letting a kid watch violence and immorality on a hollywood movie. That being said I'm not real big on kids watching Burning Hell movies and such till they are old enough. I think reading the Bible to a child is sufficient. I don't even like Burning Hell movies of which I haven't really heard of being released since the 70's or early 80's anyway.
Quote: Forcing a religion on them when they can barely making decisions for themselves is also abuse.
And yet you would find no problem putting a child in a gay home where they would be indoctrinated in the liberal view that the gay life style was perfectly fine. There was a time when even single homes could not adopt a child, and ,boom, gay rights popped up and child rights got thrown out the window so adults could live the way they wanted.
Quote: It's a social contract, not a divine creation.
Feelings of guilt come from a social contract?
Quote: It doesn't take faith to be an atheist, just the ability to think for oneself.
Oh contrare friend, it takes a whole lot of faith in scientists to believe a bang or whatever can come to be from absolutely nothing (same as God existing at all time = faith)
It takes a lot of faith having never seen any evidence to believe a one celled organism can over millions of years equal a man.
Look if I see a car. I can see it has headlights to drive at night. It has an engine filled with hundreds of smaller parts to drive the car, it has wheels, and a transmission. All things put in to make driving a reality by a designer.
Now I look at man. He has eyes to see to know where he's going. He has ears to hear. To communicate he has speech of which his ears help him to listen to. Man has a mind to drive the body. Feelings, emotions, thoughts, ideas, art, on and on come from our minds. Muscles, bones, a heart all parts of a machine created by a designer. How could it be any other way? How could it be an accident? For evolution to even work it would have to have some sort of intelligence behind it. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 11 Jul 2008 18:48
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Quote: I've never heard of Christians running around blowing up buildings
Nice deflection way off topic. The actual commandments and not just the pretty ten that fit on a plaque list punishments along with the commandments, which you already know being the bible student that you say you are, correct? One size fits most with the prescription of death as a cure for each of those 'ills'.
Quote: you would find no problem putting a child in a gay home where they would be indoctrinated
Another deflection. Homosexuality isn't a trainable or learnable behavior. If just being around someone caused you to automatically assume their preferences and/or prejudices I would probably be a homophobe and sycophant just by talking with you. This has nothing to do with scaring the shit out of kids and ignoring the abusive effects of it. Try to stay on points made not just ones you want to make match by wishing it so. If I let kids watch anything or not is immaterial to the discuccion at hand.
Quote: Feelings of guilt come from a social contract?
Yes they do, if not as a direct result of mental illness or mental abuse.
Quote: it takes a whole lot of faith in scientists
Scientists base their work and knowledge on things that have already gone through a scientific process and is in NO WAY anything like believeing in a god for any amount of time. Pick one definition of faith and stick to it through a full sentence.
Quote: It takes a lot of faith having never seen any evidence to believe a one celled organism....
Without evidence it isn't science, kinda like the dumb idea that a man was made of dirt- unprovable, unscientific bullshit.
Quote: a reality by a designer
The watchmaker strawman again. (Thanks preach, I looked up what a strawman was) We know a car has a designer because it passes a very simple test of evidence. If you keep choosing the ability of nature to actually do things by itself, you are only fooling yourself. I guess God is just standing around tinkering with weather patterns, snowflakes and crystals just for amusement? It would explain why he does nothing of worth or value anymore for his children-he's doing busy work. Screw the watchmaker argument-it's been solved again and again.
Quote: How could it be any other way?
Read a second book.
Better yet. Do something better with your time than playing semantics if you really want answers and find the answers.
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Jul 2008 20:37
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Quote: One size fits most with the prescription of death as a cure for each of those 'ills'.
You have to read the whole Bible. First we were under the law, but Jesus saved us from the punishment of the law. Not that we don't need the 10 commandments anymore but Jesus took the punishment and ushered us into the age of grace.
Quote: Another deflection. Homosexuality isn't a trainable or learnable behavior.
Sorry but I don't buy that by a long shot. Just ask the gay guys that got that way by way of rape. How about the guys that might have went a different way in life if they just had a strong father figure in the home? Don't tell me that there aren't a lot of gay people that got that way via outside influences.
Quote: f I let kids watch anything or not is immaterial to the discuccion at hand
Sure it is if you are fussing about hell and brimstone pictures, why couldn't someone bring up violent images in general. Why are your violent images ok, and Christian images not? Assuming of course every Christian presented the old Burning Hell movie to their kids from the 70's or I could say that Mel Gibson's movie was rather too violent for young kids. I wouldn't really show either one of those to really young kids, but I assume you might not have the same problem showing Hostel or Freddy Krueger to kids. Correct me if I'm wrong.
How does a social contract create a feeling of guilt? Seems like to me it would need to be put there. I guess you feel feelings of guilt for not using the latest greenie light bulbs.
Quote: Without evidence it isn't science
So evolution is screwed then?
Quote: Screw the watchmaker argument-it's been solved again and again.
It has? Seems simple to me. A person, tree, animal, planet for that matter has distinct functions that could only be put there on purpose. Trees don't have roots on accident no more than I have a stomache by accident. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 11 Jul 2008 21:09
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Quote: You have to read the whole Bible. First we were under the law, but Jesus saved us from the punishment of the law
Read the whole thing yourself. Jesus supposedly also came to uphold the law. There is of course the whole born into sin and not being saved until being born again thing as well. There's that apology of 'you're not reading it right' again. It's not quote mining or rocket science here.
Quote: Sorry but I don't buy that by a long shot
Not anyone's problem but yours. Wishing someone doesn't change reality.
Quote: Why are your violent images ok, and Christian images not?
I don't scare children or show them anything violent unlike your church and even if I or anyone outside the church does for whatever their personal reason, it does not make it ok for the church. You seem to be stuck on the idea of films which you brought to the table here. Merely the repeated descriptions and punishments of your hateful book are enough of a horror show to an impressionable child and don't require visual aid-the child's imagination makes stronger pictures than any film maker can.
Quote: So evolution is screwed then?
No. Evolution has evidence to it so your question is either dumb. dishonest or disrespectful. Which one?
Quote: A person, tree, animal, planet for that matter has distinct functions that could only be put there on purpose.
Science agrees with you.
Quote: Trees don't have roots on accident no more than I have a stomache by accident.
Science still agrees with you.
What's your point? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 17:31
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Quote: Science still agrees with you.
So if science agrees the various functions of life and creations were made on purpose then what intelligent force put theme there? Evolution is not an intelligent self aware being of some sort is it?
Quote: I don't scare children or show them anything violent unlike your church
You have no idea what or how my church goes about teaching kids in Sunday school. You know what they say about assuming things. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 18:18
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You were told to believe in an 'intelligent force'. Science says nothing of the sort, for or against any such 'creator' because science has no evidence to support it.
Quote: You have no idea what or how my church goes about teaching kids in Sunday school. You know what they say about assuming things.
I do not what they say about assumption-it makes an ass of you and mption.
I would have to make the 'leap of faith' that what one fundamental Christian church teaches and how it teaches should be identical to any other fundamental Christian church. If that is wrong, please explain. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 19:22
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Where do you get the idea that after Sunday school is over at my church the children are all quivering in the corner at home filled with terror? Did you have some bad experience at church or something? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 12 Jul 2008 21:58
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You've made a few assumptions here. That I don't know what happens at Sunday school- false. That I don't know what goes on in a fundamental house of worship-wrong. That the kids are literally hunkered down in a fetal position 'pissing their pants' clutching to each other in terror-wrong. If I branch that out further, you're also either telling me that my vision doesn't work, my judgement doesn't work, I can't form an opinion for myself or I am just not allowed to have an opinion here-all of which I assure are completely false.
We are getting nowhere, talking like we have been. I've made some progress since I started posting here when you first put the board up but now I see I haven't progressed far enough.
We are going to have some meaningful discussions that actually go somewhere and settle what they start as instead of landing in the same handful of crates they have been.
Since I am going to be making an effort, I would ask for you to do the same. I guess we'll hash out the details as we go.
I'm gonna start with the request that you stop trying to defeat entire groups through me. To clarify: I don't believe in a god which makes me atheist. Even when you have a winning argument aginst mine, you are not 'defeating' atheism. If I have to pigeonholed into a political camp I would be closest to Libertarian-a winning argument in politics against mine doesn't defeat libertarians. I accept the theory of evolution equally with the theory of relativity as far as I can understand each-winning an argument in this realm does not defeat Darwin, Darwinists/Darwinism(whatever those are) or evolution. The same works towards you. If I have a better argument than on some religious item, I am not defeating Christianity, etc. Can we agree on this as a start? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 21:36
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Quote: Can we agree on this as a start?
I'm not completely sure I follow you here because my goal whether we are debating or not is to come up with reasons evolutionists are wrong or liberals etc. How would I go about doing that and still follow under your guidelines?
I can promise you I'll do my best to always be as civil as possible. I rather look at debating as a chess game only the game is a search for truth not just about who wins or loses. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 13 Jul 2008 23:57
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I am not an 'evolutionist' or a 'liberal'.
Debate over if that's all you were looking for. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 14 Jul 2008 15:19
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I'm confused pak. Is it not true that you are an evolutionists? You've been sticking up for evolution forever. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 14 Jul 2008 16:56
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I'm not an evolutionist. That's some title strapped on to people which means nothing-like Darwinist.
My feelings and thoughts on evolution: I don't completely understand it and don't think anyone who is not an accredited biologist really does. However, based on the examples that I do understand, I cannot find an argument against it. Scientists accept this as a 'fact' when studying biology as (I'm told) all modern biology hinges on it. Without it, nothing else makes sense in biology to scientists who understand it. IF I am to be left with only the choice of the biblical allegory of a mystical creation where everything was made 'as-is' -versus- a process which is mostly evident on it's merits- I have to pick the side that at least provides some evidence. Therefore, I accept the theory of evolution to explain the diversity of life on earth based on it's own merits. When the theory is contended against Genesis, I'm sticking with evolution.
The only part I have more trouble understanding than the science itself is why it is seemingly only the most fanatically faithful that have an issue with evolution. I can't see anywhere in the bible itself that denies evolution and I'd be willing to bet that you could not provide a single line of scripture that does deny it without assigning some special 'meaning' or 'way of reading' to the actual passage which defeats that 'book being the word of God' contention soundly. Please try if you have the time.
Bottom line: I accept the theroy of evolution in explaining the diversity of life on the planet and shared ancestry. I don't need a convenient title to be pigeonholed into for anyone else's comfort or necessity. I am not an evolutionist or Darwinist.
Clear? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 14 Jul 2008 17:09
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Quote: I can't see anywhere in the bible itself that denies evolution
Quote: GE 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
GE 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
GE 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
GE 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
GE 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
GE 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
GE 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
GE 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
GE 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
GE 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
GE 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
GE 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GE 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
GE 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
GE 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
GE 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
GE 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
GE 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
GE 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
GE 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GE 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GE 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
GE 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
GE 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
GE 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GE 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GE 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
GE 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
GE 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
GE 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
GE 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
GE 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
GE 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
It says the method of which God used was his words. God said and it was so.
Quote: the most fanatically faithful that have an issue with evolution.
Funny, I don't feel like a fanatic.
The problem with arguing evolution is that if I supply scientific findings from a creationist point of view then you can automatically label it as biased and therefore not reliable. Otherwise I could copy and paste a million different things from creationist sites.
The point being there are a lot of creation scientist out there that would argue against evolution as a science in a hurry. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 14 Jul 2008 17:21
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wtf...
Point out what says evolution is wrong specifically Tim. 'God said and was so' would be about the supposed creation point and says nothing about evolution-for or against.
Quote: Funny, I don't feel like a fanatic.
Most fanatics don't.
Quote: if I supply scientific findings from a creationist point
Supply them already. You don't have science in the bible. If you'd like to point out otherwise, please do so. Paste away.
Quote: there are a lot of creation scientist out there that would argue against evolution as a science
Anyone can argue anything they like. If they can disprove evolution, they should do so immediately. If you wish for me to see your side on this, at all, start with explaining what a 'creation scientist' is in the first place as I don't believe they exist. At least they shouldn't as a contradiction of conventional terms.
-------------------------------------------------
Since we just had to jump over to a debate on creation vs evolution again, could you please just acknowledge that you read and understand what I said about not being an evolutionist or Darwinist. Thanks. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 01:46
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Quote: Point out what says evolution is wrong specifically Tim. 'God said and was so' would be about the supposed creation point and says nothing about evolution-for or against.
It tells what method was used. His words.
Quote: Most fanatics don't.
Hmm...I don't suppose anybody would ever say that about you.
Quote: Supply them already. You don't have science in the bible. If you'd like to point out otherwise, please do so. Paste away
Ok, tomorrow when I got more time, though I'm pretty sure I've already went through this only to have it called biased and all that.
Got it, you are not an evolutionists, but you believe in evolution because there are scientists that do, but I still wonder why do the scientists that don't not count? __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 02:25
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Quote: It tells what method was used. His words.
Still about creation, not development.
I don't know what you're saying with the last question. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 14:35
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I was asking how you can so easily disregard the opinions of creationist scientist. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 16:28
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Because 'creation science' is imaginary, as are its' 'scientists'.
I've already given you the site talkorigins.org to look over at your leisure. Here's a couple faq for you to check out.
That's a very small sample of what appears to be an answer to every possible question available for people on either side of the evolution/creation debate. I picked a few that I thought might interest you. If a question ever arises about evolution or creation again, this is where I'm going for the answer. You have the same access to it. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 17:14
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Posts: 1408
Join Date: Jul 2007
Hey look! Dead horse! Let's kick it a few more times! __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 19:07
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Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
If I must insure it to stay dead, I'm going to kick the crap out of it. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 15 Jul 2008 21:42
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Posts: 1408
Join Date: Jul 2007
You know Pak, all of our positions on this have been pretty well documented, and you are the one who keeps posting stuff down this road. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
