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| Posted: 20 Jul 2008 23:58 |
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I posted this on my superhero site already, but I figured I'd just paste it over here too since there are a lot of political statements in this movie. Love to hear what you all think about the Dark Knight and it's political symbolism. Seemed very pro-Bush to me.
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How does anybody miss this in the movie? There is obviously some political symbolism going on here big time. It's like Batman is representing George Bush when he fights on to the end the terrorist threat represented by the Joker. Even though he starts to become very unpopular with the crowd.
The remarks in the movie about what did Wayne expect when he spat in the face of the bad guys in Gotham. The speeches about how it's not easy fighting evil, darkest before dawn. It was all symbolism for the war on terror and Iraq.
Batman puts a giant tap on everybody's cell phone to catch the Joker as some have feared Bush planned to do. Well the Bush plan is a little different but the symbolism is obviously there.
What do you all think? Is Nolan the director giving Bush praise comparing him to Batman, or trying to say something else entirely?
Batman posters
All in all it was a good movie. A very smart movie, but a little long, and definitely not for kids. I think a lot of kids are going to be bored. It may be too intense and too hard to follow for anyone under 13. I felt like I was drawn into another universe watching this movie. It was a very scary world. I could go on and on, but I'd like to know what the rest of you guys out there thought.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 21 Jul 2008 03:50 |
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I really don't plan on seeing it because I have been so disappointed in what I've seen of the Joker. He looks like he's planning his crimes from the drunk tank.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 21 Jul 2008 14:47 |
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Hmm...well I recommend you at least rent it out when it comes to dvd especially if like really deep dramas.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 21 Jul 2008 23:33 |
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Just got back from seeing it. Everyone did a great job. The joker is something of a mad genius preach, not a drunk and as he puts it, he's a 'man of his word'. If that's the only issue you have, you should go. You're missing out on some incredible photograghy, all the other fine acting and some action scenes that were pretty dizzying, not to mention this film has an actual group of storylines to wrap your brain around. Go to watch the veterans if nothing else- You've got Morgan Freeman, Gary Oldman and Michael Caine all here too-all in peak shape, all under the radar of the rest of the hype. Each one of them actually adds to the concept of the Batman/Bruce character as well. Finally, one of the key elements that wraps around the entire film is morality, which gets respresented in just about every way imaginable by most of the main characters and a few bit players-the ferry scene might bring a tear to your eye even.
On the negative side: As good a performance as Heath gave, I think people are blowing it a little out of proportion because of his death. A great job sure, but not the 'greatest villain ever' or anything. I think as time goes on people will get over the hype and shock of it all.
I actually missed Katie Holmes here. I like Maggie Gyllenhall in just about every other thing I've seen her in, but there was just something missing.
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It's like Batman is representing George Bush
Sorry Tim, I gotta slam that down on the spot. This film had absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, even though the Joker should be considered a terrorist. The film doesn't make any connection to Iraq at all and the only way Bush is like Batman is when bats deliberately ignores everyone's right to privacy with the cell phone trick.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 02:09 |
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*Spoiler alert*
I like the parallel. It calls attention to the correct way in which to go about "snooping" if and when it is necessary to public safety- with checks and balances.
Such was the case before George W. Bush told his people to ignore the FISA court, which had only denied two wiretapping requests since its inception in 1978.
Batman gave Lucais Fox the ability to destroy the sonar after they found the Joker. It was used once- with another person in control to keep Batman from going mad with power.
W, on the other hand, has done everything in his ability- including breaking the law- to spy on the American people without the required warrant. In the final analysis, Bush has also fought to keep this tyrannical power.
As it stands, Batman has no sonar program. The Executive branch will keep the ability to spy on you with no one to stop them.
The whole point of the movie was the RESPONSIBLE use of power to combat terrorism. It couldn't have less to do with Bush, unless you consider that moron in the hockey pads.
So thanks Tim, for pointing out one more way in which George W. Bush has been a disaster for this country.
If you want to argue the point further, don't bother. I'm done.
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 16:21 |
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Well....
The main point I wanted to make was that there was a political message in the movie that critics weren't picking up on.
Danny you just need a big hug.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 23:02 |
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I vote no... oh wait, that was the other post
good to see you Danny
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2008 04:39 |
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I don't think symbolism and metaphores are your strong suit Tim.
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2008 19:43 |
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You have to admit there is political symbolism in the movie. That much is undeniable.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 28 Jul 2008 20:03 |
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The political symbolism would seem to be a direct result of including political figures in the storyline.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 29 Jul 2008 16:45 |
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And people thought the last Star Wars had political symbolism and all I saw was Jar Jar.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 29 Jul 2008 16:49 |
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We need to chip in for a new prescription for you.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 29 Jul 2008 16:52 |
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You know I'm right dog gone it.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 29 Jul 2008 20:01 |
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I honestly think you say alot of things here just for a reaction or even to pick a fight sometimes. Being 'right' doesn't seem to be a priority too often.
I did want to start a small series of discussions with stuff from Dark Knight. For examples, I wanted to delve into the morality issues, what an actual batman would do to the environment(think of the wanna be heroes he has to knock sense into with Scarecrow for instance), what each character does to affect their environment, a joker/batman side by side, chaos creating order, Alfred's speech about some men wanting the world to burn, etc etc etc.
My question is this. They will involve some grown up material but it involves obvious comic book elements. Would it be more appropriate here or on the supes site? I'm thinking about the topic header of DK Redux-let me know.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 30 Jul 2008 20:20 |
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Let's put it on my superherouniverse board in the Batman section.
http://superherouniverse.com/messageboard/forum5.htm
That sounds like a good discussion. I've already been discussing with one guy about the reasoning behind the Batman missing the Joker on his motorcycle.
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I honestly think you say alot of things here just for a reaction or even to pick a fight sometimes. Maybe I'm secretly evil. Basically though, my main point was that there were political overtones in this movie, and I just wanted to see how others reacted to how I interpreted those political symbolisms.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 30 Jul 2008 21:50 |
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I'm gonna veto that. 
If you want, please feel free to paste it over there or have them come here or something. The issues are from a superhero movie but aren't really comic book specific. I can't see myself with a third board just to talk on. Maybe what I'll do is start here with the adults and if it doesn't get too heavy, I'll paste it myself on the Superman site.
Was DK Redux an ok topic title?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 31 Jul 2008 10:36 |
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In the recent Entertainment weekly they have a feature about the movie and a part of it is a Q&A with the director. I'm typing these out of the magazine.
Quote:
EW: There's an old joke about how Superman is the guy girls want to marrybut Batman's the one they want to date.
Nolan: Michael Caine had a great line: "Superman is the way America sees itself, but Batman is the way the world sees America"
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EW: You and your cowriters put alot of what many people take to be political metaphors in your Batman movies. Are these deliberate?
Nolan: Well, the simple answer is yes. That's not to say that we're trying to make political stories. That's not the case. We just write from the perspective of the world we live in, what interests us and what frightens us. And one of the things we're very aware of right now is the idea of society breaking down. That's what we're doing with the joker. He's essentially an anarchist. An agent of chaos we like to call him.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 31 Jul 2008 14:45 |
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See he admits there is politics in this movie. 
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 31 Jul 2008 21:08 |
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Uhm...
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That's not to say that we're trying to make political stories. That's not the case
Quote:
We just write from the perspective of the world we live in, what interests us and what frightens us.
He didn't 'admit' any such thing.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 01 Aug 2008 15:21 |
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__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 01 Aug 2008 17:31 |
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?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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