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| Posted: 08 Aug 2008 19:55 |
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The first one is hilarious. The only thing I could see people getting pissy about is Donald being portrayed as a nazi at all.
The second one is an RKO picture, not Disney.
Lets see if I can find some 'trash' here. The entirity of Germany in the form of Sleeping Beauty, a fat, ugly, oafish drunk. That might be a problem if the responder is German or actually in Germany.
The indoctirination of the children is certainly ugly. We couldn't possibly allow that here in this country, could we? Have you seen Jesus Camp? Maybe when someone on YT is shouting 'trash' it's at the hypocrisy. So, this might be the problem.
Then we have the evil teacher shouting about how great Germany is, how their way is best and someday they will take over the world. It's ugly to be sure. It's also exactly what some people describe as patriotism and unfortunately what some Americans sound like-just morph the taking over part into 'we're number one, we're better than everyone else'. Again, there's an air of hypocrisy here too and perhaps this is the problem.
At least there's no gays in it right? Just good wholesome family entertainment.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Aug 2008 00:48 |
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I wish you wouldn't think of a Christian school as being compared to Nazis that taught kids to hate and destroy. I went to a Christian school till around 7th grade. I was never taught to be a Nazi and go around shooting people I didn't like. I was taught to love my neighbor. Don't steal, value life. How is that wrong exactly?
You exaggerate way to far to make your point.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Aug 2008 02:16 |
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I wish you wouldn't think of a Christian school as being compared to Nazis that taught kids to hate and destroy
Not what I meant to convey-my apologies for the misunderstanding. To clarify...pushing an agenda of any type on impressionable children is child abuse. To make them fear the state so they act a certain way is certainly a far cry from making them fear hell so they act a certain way but the results are the same and the damage is the same. I don't equate hitler youth with sunday school although they are connected more than you'd be willing to admit.
Something I forgot to add there before or maybe it didn't strike me to needing commenting then. Another piece of the trash equation. You have a cartoon with the sole purpose of teaching hate to children about how another group of children is taught hate. There's no maybe-it is trash, utterly and completely.
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You exaggerate way to far to make your point.
Pot calling kettle black? Remember this the next time you want to summon up Elvis, Reagen, Chuck Norris, flag waving or your good intention for all of America's children or the wellbeing of the entirity of society and all the other similar tactics you employ in your responses.
It would seem we still both have a problem with attacking the person instead of the argument. I'll try harder to avoid this if you will. Maybe after we fix that we can move on to staying on one topic at a time.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Aug 2008 15:33 |
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it didn't strike me to needing commenting then. Another piece of the trash equation. You have a cartoon with the sole purpose of teaching hate to children about how another group of children is taught hate.
Wrong, I believe more than likely this cartoon was probably shown to adults. Most likely soldiers as a lot of films of this nature were shown to them before going off to war. The government wanted to show our boys what we were up against.
Besides it's not teaching hate if it's the truth. Where in the liberal world is it ok just to come to terms with the truth even when it is devisive? Should America have buried it's head in the sand when the Nazis were doing their thing? Isn't it better to have people informed of the kind of hatred the Nazis were spreading?
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Maybe after we fix that we can move on to staying on one topic at a time. Sure but conversations like the internet lead from one place right into another. It all links together.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Aug 2008 16:33 |
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The government wanted to show our boys what we were up against.
That's why the narrator sounded like he was talking to children? Hard to believe this is how they spoke to adult soldiers.
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Besides it's not teaching hate if it's the truth.
You called it propaganda, now it's the truth. Pick one.
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Should America have buried it's head in the sand when the Nazis were doing their thing?
Has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
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Isn't it better to have people informed of the kind of hatred the Nazis were spreading?
Remember that exaggerating thing you just spoke of recently? Spreading deception is what it remains even with the best of intentions.
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conversations like the internet lead from one place right into another
You're not conversing with the whole internet. Just whoever happens to be here for it, in a particular topic out of several, addressing a particular conversation. Try some focus.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Aug 2008 22:41 |
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I didn't think he sounded like he was talking to children. What you think they showed it to school children?
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You called it propaganda, now it's the truth. Pick one. Propaganda for lack of a better word . It was made for the war effort.
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Remember that exaggerating thing you just spoke of recently? Spreading deception is what it remains even with the best of intentions. So what part do you think they lied about?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 10 Aug 2008 00:01 |
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What you think they showed it to school children?
I went back and watched it again. I am convinced as I watch it again that it probably was not shown to kids, my mistake. You do have to wonder why it's a cartoon in the first place. It's certainly not family entertainment.
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So what part do you think they lied about?
That resembled reality to you in what way?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 10 Aug 2008 22:23 |
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I think the points it made were that school kids in Nazi Germany were taught the Nazi way of life. I may have been in cartoon form, but there's nothing there that disagrees with history. Specifically, besides cartoon addons, are there any historical facts that are incorrect in this piece? Was there anything that was untrue they were trying to lead the audience to believe about the Nazi system of government back then?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 11 Aug 2008 00:06 |
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I wasn't there. Believe what you like.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 05:09 |
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Let me throw this out there. Children will be programmed by someone in their life, that's reality. Trying to program children with a certain worldview isn't necessarily harmful, although I think it is inherently dangerous to let some over-reaching bureaucracy educate your children. Such edifices have a proven track record of turning out good little socialist stooges who look to the same government that educated them for sustenance and guidance. Enough of that soapbox.
And I don't hold to the notion that all propaganda is bad . I am neatly sidestepping the argument of where education ends and propagandizing begins. I believe you have a responsibility as the educator to instill certain concepts in young minds. Let me give you an example.
I believe that America, even though in a downward spiral still is a pretty remarkable place. I believe the freedoms enjoyed here have been unparalleled in human history and generally speaking, it's history (at least the first 150 ears) has been a history of commitment to the highest in human principles. Even into the twentieth century, the history of my country has been one of sacrificing it's own sons and treasure to secure freedom for other lands.
As such I believe that America is an inherently better place than some other places with a culture inherently, objectively superior to some other cultures ( Islamic culture or European socialism just for an example or two). I do not apologize for this opinion. Now, if given an impressionable audience I share my heart on this matter, I don't see anything wrong with that. Is that propagandistic? Who knows?
I think a culture has a responsibility to pass on the high points of that culture on to it's next generation.
Nazi Germany (who were socialists, that's what National Socialist Party means) were teaching their children through forced indoctrination not necessarily the high points of German culture, but rather a glorified version of the twisted ideals of that particular regime. Now we would never do that here, or would we? Oh that's right, I got off that soapbox a couple of paragraphs back.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 15:57 |
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As far as educators go, they are a socialist offering to begin with, as you pointed out to me not so long ago. This had really sunk in when it fully encompassed what I believe about our public schools-when it works as prescribed it makes assembly line workers and loyal soldiers and little else. I would say that an educator's only task should be to teach kids how to think and reason and try things for themselves instead of 'make no mistakes' and what to believe.
If kids were taught to be rational and reason for themselves, they could be shown all of our society or any other society for that matter and decide for themselves as the new prevailing society what exactly deserves to be held up as an ideal or not. Take for instance the evil stigma that comes part and parcel any time someone even mentions Hitler or Nazi Germany. People very quickly remember the atrocities and crimes against humanity(except for the ignorant few who try to debunk this from reality). When you even give a moments notice to those atrocities it obliterates any notion of goodness or decency that may have escaped the first glance as the atrocities draw our attention away. We forget that before there was a holocaust, what Germany had been and how they rebuilt back to a world power before that power tried to swallow the world whole. Behind all the evil and delusion and mysticism and occult behavior of Hitler was a well obscured success story worth taking note of.
Teach a child to think for themselves and not only can they pick out the positive from that wreckage but actually decide very effectively how to adapt it and apply it, knowing full well the point that must not be crossed in retrospect. Now we have progress by trully learning from the past instead of just being slave to the winner's version of the story.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 16:01 |
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That reminds me of a Bible verse, "Train up a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it."
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 16:04 |
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Quote:
"Train up a child in the way he should go, and he will not depart from it."
I know this won't be warmly received but I have to say it. That right there is a part of the problem. That gives them a set path instead of letting them find the path on their own.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 02:07 |
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So should I advise my children which berries in the woods are poisonous or should I let them find out for themselves? I mean, after they are no longer under my authority there are certainly free to gobble as many poisonous berries as they want, the berries will still be there.
Sometimes we really make things more complicated than they need to be.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 03:22 |
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Sometimes we really make things more complicated than they need to be.
Sometimes we oversimplify just to make a point too.
There's a difference between teaching them about berries and forcing them to eat berries in the first place.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 04:20 |
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Touche, kind sir
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 19:16 |
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Why have kids if you are just going to let them run wild and do whatever the heck they want?
Pack you do know as a parent you have to make sure kids go to school or get put in jail. You have to be held responsible for what damages a kid may cause. You are held responsible for a kids health that they get food, stay warm in the winter and on and on.
And you mean to tell me a parent doesn't have the right to teach their kids the difference between right and wrong.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 19:25 |
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I think you misunderstand me.
They need guidance, they need to learn the basics, they need to be aware of the various dangers in the world, they need nurturing and encouragement and of course the basics like food and shelter and clothing along with the other myriad creature comforts we shower on them.
The 'great divide' as it were, would be, do you force them toward an ideology or lifestyle or career or philosophy, or do you let them discover these on their own? Do you protect them from failure or have them embrace what needs to be done to succeed? At its simplest level, where do you draw the line between instilling values and enforcing them?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 20:48 |
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Well my view is it's my way till they can put a roof over their own heads. When they can do that, I only hope I did a good enough job training them cause then the kid is on his own.
I can always be reached of course for pep talks, but that's when the controlling and responsibility part is officially over.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 21:50 |
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Well my view is it's my way till they can put a roof over their own heads
That would make them little more than puppets which I don't think you meant to say. I fully grasp the necessity of setting boundaries and limits and rules with kids, but I'm not sure what your definition of controlling includes or to what limit you set for yourself there.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 15:41 Last Edited By: Tim |
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Well if I say you can't go to that party, or you can't drink that liquor I mean it. If I say study your math, then by golly that's what I mean. I pay the bills my rules.
Now on the other hand I believe what the Bible teaches about creating anger in your kids. Simply put I don't believe in trying to see how far I can push. That creates rebellion. I pick and choose my battles. I explain my positions. I don't waver from them, but I like to make plain why this or that has to be done.
My biggest weapon is the power of the lecture. Of course I'm not saying I haven't used the power of spanking in the past, but lecturing can be just as tormenting. Kidding about that last part.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 16:12 |
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Ok, let's switch the focus a bit.
What do you think of parents that force their little girls to do beauty pageants?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 18:06 |
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Hmm I can't relate, don't have a girl. I would never do it, but I think pageants are stupid.
I want my boy to be in sports, but not if he's not willing to put a 100 percent into it first. My main priority is his moral upbringing and what kind of grades he makes. Education over things like that. Still wouldn't mind if he had a mind for football or something. Like I said you have to pick your battles.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 18:09 |
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Ok, what if your son wants to try being a Mormon or Catholic when he's maybe about 15?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 19:57 |
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I'll pray really hard, and don't even think about asking me what you are thinking about asking me after this one. I already know where you are headed, and I wouldn't answer that question on a message board for nothing.
What would you do if your child accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour? And worst they insisted on praying before Thanksgiving meal?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 20:04 |
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I already know where you are headed,
Sounds a bit paranoid.
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What would you do if your child accepted Jesus Christ as Saviour?
I'd offer him the opportunity to learn of other religions and spiritual pursuits to make sure that's what he really wants. After that, what choice would I have but to deal with it and let him pursue it?
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they insisted on praying before Thanksgiving meal?
It's really not the problem you might think. Just like if I have dinner with a religious family, I respect their wishes to pray and even bow my head in respect for them, though I don't pray myself as I don't believe there's any point to it.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 16 Aug 2008 20:40 |
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Instead of Six Degrees of Separation, I think this site practices Three or Four Degrees of Separation. 3 or 4 posts before we separate ourselves from the topic.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 16 Aug 2008 20:47 |
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Just like if I have dinner with a religious family, I respect their wishes to pray and even bow my head in respect for them, though I don't pray myself as I don't believe there's any point to it.
In my best Clint Eastwood imitiation - That's mighty Christian of you.
You might get that joke if your a big Dirty Harry fan.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 16 Aug 2008 21:26 |
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That's mighty Christian of you
I always wanted to be a walking contradiction.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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