Quote: There is a big difference here. That is a race isssue.
No. There really isn't a difference. He is not his minister, and his church is not the KKK.
Quote: I apologize for the harshness of my comment.
Thanks. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 10 Sep 2008 02:22 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers
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He is/was a member of a racist church. His minister is an open racist and he hates white people--but Obama had been in his church for YEARS and that fact hasn't bothered him yet.
While on the other hand, Sarah Palin has a daughter that is still a minor, and is pregnant. Which is a typical American problem nowadays.
Obama did something controversial. Palin didn't do anything controversial, her daughter did. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 10 Sep 2008 06:10
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Steve, look at what you're doing here.
You want to make an issue of his minister, and that minister's racist ways. You're claiming that Obama did something here. Obama's not responsible for that minister in any way. I don't know too much about this minister, so I can't even say if he's actually racist or not-I'd be interested in your source on this, if you have any. Let's say he is racist just for the sake of argument and he hates white people-how does this translate to Obama doing something? Also, you just listed a post faulting him for being a closet Muslim, like this is some sort of problem too. Actually point out which action he really took that would be controversial-he's not his minister and if he has a minister, he's not a Muslim ffs.
Now we have Mrs Palin. Her platform consists of many conservative things. Two issues she supports strongly are abstinence outside of marriage and prohibiting condom use. Her underage daughter, who she is absolutely responsible for, is unwed and pregnant. If this were on somebody on the Dem ticket, Fox News would make it a family values issue that the other candidate cannot be allowed to take office for being so lax in the raising of their children-if they can't manage their own child, they certainly can't be fit to manage the nation except to lead us straight into a 'liberal toilet'. All of a sudden it's no big deal, because you guys have a hard-on for this stewardess on your ticket. If there's any doubt toward the validity of what I'm saying, look again at how O'Reilly absolutely threw the Spears family under the bus for Britney's little sister being pregnant, then changed his tune to make it OK for the Palins. It's a rediculous double standard. What her daughter did does reflect on her-that doesn't stop because you guys can let it slide. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 10 Sep 2008 13:57
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I can only answer one question here because I am short on time. The problem with the possibility of him being a Muslim is that he said he was a Christian. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 10 Sep 2008 17:02
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Quote: The problem with the possibility of him being a Muslim is that he said he was a Christian.
I don't care what his faith is. We're not hiring a Pontiff. What we're talking about is a double standard. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Sep 2008 05:04
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Examine Wright's comments. Its obvious. But if you really want a source, say so, and I'll look for one.
Quote: Her underage daughter, who she is absolutely responsible for, is unwed and pregnant.
Its a shame, I know.
Quote: What her daughter did does reflect on her-that doesn't stop because you guys can let it slide.
The girl is just the reflection of the typical, teenage rebellious daughter. I'd like to think that good parenting can always prevent a bad turnout with their children...but that's not always the way it works. I don't know why. But teenagers are typically this way. Besides, pregrant teenage girls seems to be an ordinary American problem nowadays.
As for the part about Obama's religion, I'm leaving that blank because we're discussing that on another thread. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 11 Sep 2008 07:26
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Quote: The girl is just the reflection of the typical, teenage rebellious daughter.
This one happened to a conservative mom who's running for VP of the US-not a standard case. The girl's mother has a political philosophy of abstinence, restricting condom use and being anti-abortion as well-it matters more than most. If this happened to Hillary Clinton had she gotten the nomination, she would not have gotten a free pass by anyone in the GOP, or their supporters. Just to be clear here-my concern is not with the daughter being pregnant as much as the double standard being applied by everyone from Fox News down to you guys. Especially when you also find the time to pick away at every possible personal chink in the armor of the Dem. candidate.
Does Palin's daughter reflect on her being Vice President? Yes, absolutely, it does. It affects the person behind the title. Will it actually keep her from doing the job? No, there's several other factors to handle that. If it were just a case of this being the only thing we could look at in concert with her in any sort of negative light, she'd have no problem doing the job at all.
Does Barack's Reverend reflect on him as a Presidential candidate? Absolutely. If he's secretly a Muslim posing as a Christian, I'd probably start thinking of him as a terrorist from that point on myself. Since we have no actual proof of him being a closet Muslim, we have to stick with what he says he is, a Christian with a minister that people take issue with. Does this keep him from being able to do the job he's set out to do? Absolutely not.
Understand that as we speak here, hopefully we'll move past the personal issues. I don't care about that stuff-really, not one little bit. That's why I started the Issues threads to keep stuff job-related. However, even if we manage to move past it, the various press outlets won't and the opponents of each candidate won't. None of that goes away even if people stop talking about it out in the open.
You want an example? Let your imagination run wild over how many Bush haters must take great delight in knowing Cheney has a gay daughter and how badly it must torment him. Nobody speaks about it out loud much, but it's still there, right beneath the surface, ready for a personal attack. All that personal stuff does not go away-ever.
Someday we might remember this when electing people and just keep it work related. We can make the effort to do just that here, if everyone is willing. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Sep 2008 19:48
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Quote: Especially when you also find the time to pick away at every possible personal chink in the armor of the Dem. candidate.
I have only examined two issues concerning Obama: his Muslim background, and his racist minister.
Quote: The girl's mother has a political philosophy of abstinence, restricting condom use and being anti-abortion as well-it matters more than most.
Do you feel that this shows that Palin does not even enforce her own rules?
I don't know much at all about pyschology, but I've always heard that children are put under pressure by their parents' high standards, and sometimes they rebel against their parents and do exactly what they're not supposed to do. i understand that this may make Palin look like she is a bad parent, but I hope that Americans will try to stay open-minded about this. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 11 Sep 2008 20:48
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Quote: I have only examined two issues
I might have said that wrong-the 'you' implied there were everyone from Fox News on down.
Quote: Do you feel that this shows that Palin does not even enforce her own rules?
In a sense, yes. Understand that this person is going to be in a position should she be elected with McCain, to tell others how to live or actually exert influence on how others live by enforcing or trying to enforce standards and legislature on others. For her to continue to push for abstinence and a prohibition on condom use makes her a hypocrite in light of her immediate family and the associated details. To follow this up immediately by overturning Roe V. Wade, makes her criminally neglect and self indulgent. The term 'practice what you preach' comes to mind.
What happened with her daughter, by itself, is not a huge deal. Could happen to anyone with a daughter of that age. It's the mix of this with her political philosophy that's the problem.
Compare this to Obama supposedly being a Muslim. It's very doubtful he's going to try and pass Muslim laws or make others live in such a way comparative of it. That's really oversimplified but I hope you get what I mean. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 11 Sep 2008 22:47
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Quote: Compare this to Obama supposedly being a Muslim. It's very doubtful he's going to try and pass Muslim laws or make others live in such a way comparative of it. That's really oversimplified but I hope you get what I mean.
As a Chrstian, I would be very worried with a Muslim as our President.
Quote: In a sense, yes. Understand that this person is going to be in a position should she be elected with McCain, to tell others how to live or actually exert influence on how others live by enforcing or trying to enforce standards and legislature on others. For her to continue to push for abstinence and a prohibition on condom use makes her a hypocrite in light of her immediate family and the associated details. To follow this up immediately by overturning Roe V. Wade, makes her criminally neglect and self indulgent. The term 'practice what you preach' comes to mind.
I'm sure Palin practices what she preaches. But she can't expect everyone to agree with her position on abstinence and condoms, and her daughter is apparently no different. Palin can teach her daughter whatever she wants, but sometimes its these outside influences that can really get to a person. Its sad that Palin's daughter has done this, going against everything she was taught. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 00:04
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Quote: As a Chrstian, I would be very worried with a Muslim as our President.
It would seem you don't have anything to worry about then.
Quote: But she can't expect everyone to agree with her position on abstinence and condoms,
She wouldn't need everyone to agree-she'd be acting in 'our best interest'. Like when she became Mayor of Wasilla and tried to ban books 'in the best interests of the community'. When she couldn't get those books banned, she fired the head librarian-for the 'good of the community'. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 00:54
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Quote: She wouldn't need everyone to agree
That is the point I'm trying to make.
Not everyone is going to agree with her, and that includes her daughter. Just because Palin believes one way, doesn't mean her daughter is going to be believe it too (although she should). __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 01:04
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Quote: Not everyone is going to agree with her, and that includes her daughter. Just because Palin believes one way, doesn't mean her daughter is going to be believe it too (although she should).
I'm not sure what we're talking about here anymore.
Remind me. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 02:52
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I was defending Palin, by saying that just because her daughter got pregnant, doesn't mean she didn't enforce her own rules. It just means that her daughter made a mistake and rebelled against her mother's principles. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 04:43
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I thought this was originally about Palin being a good VP or not. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 04:45
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Yeah, but then you hammered her about her daughter being pregnant. __________________
"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 05:06
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She's married, I never hammered her. I never even made a pass-I dont get up to Alaska.
I only pointed out a list of small dramas and scandals she brought in her carry on luggage that could hurt McCain's campaign further than he's already damaged it.
You guys wanted to give her a pass for this(which she's still not getting, by the way). If anyone was hammering, that was on you for trying to weasel her toward immunity from this one thing on her list. The simple solution here is to focus on the issues themselves, if you want.
Though, we could go back and forth with the personal stuff on all 4 of em, if you really want to. I can't think of a single knock on Joe biden-maybe you know of something? __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 07:28
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__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 07:44
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__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 07:52
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__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 12 Sep 2008 08:01
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I ran across this next one and remembered your quote:
Quote: As a Chrstian, I would be very worried with a Muslim as our President.
This may be offensive to some of you, my apology in advance if it does-not my intent. It's a response on the same level as your concern.
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 13 Sep 2008 21:17
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On the one video I just want to mention that energy is very important to national security. We can't defend ourselves or take care of ourselves for that matter without it. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 13 Sep 2008 21:44
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Quote: I just want to mention that energy is very important to national security.
I can't argue with that. The question though, is whether energy or foreign policy is more important toward our security. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 13 Sep 2008 22:00
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Things like this do not bode well for our national security.
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 14 Sep 2008 01:32
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I actually think the discussion of Alaskan earmarks is a valid political criticism, certainly more valid than rantings about her teenage daughter. What I'm not sure of though is how much of that Palin actually has to do with. I know that their Senator is Ted Stevens who never saw an earmark he didn't like. As Governor, I'm not sure how much pull she has with steering federal money their way and if she has the ability to sort of 'line-item veto' funding as it shows up on her doorstep. I think it's a valid question though. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 03:18 Last Edited By: JimboRush
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If John McCain is elected, it is a pretty good chance that Ms. Palin will be president in the next four years. That gives me a moment of pause.
The question I would ask is this:
If she had the Republican party's nomination for President, would she win? Would she have even had a chance at getting her party's nomination? (I ask the same about Biden. The answer for both Palin and Biden is there is no way they would have gotten the nomination. I think Biden was a mistake for Obama as well.)
"Experience" isn't the issue here. Just like Hillary, there is something about her that isn't right; I can't put my finger on it. I think Palin and Hillary Clinton are mirror images of each other.
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 03:36
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Hmmm.. well Jimbo, as much as I disagree with your last point, you bring a different perspective to the site, which is always welcome. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 15 Sep 2008 15:13
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Quote: If she had the Republican party's nomination for President, would she win?
I'm doubtful she would have seen the slightest consideration for the post based on her own merits. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 03:40
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Quote: If she had the Republican party's nomination for President, would she win? Would she have even had a chance at getting her party's nomination? (I ask the same about Biden. The answer for both Palin and Biden is there is no way they would have gotten the nomination. I think Biden was a mistake for Obama as well.)
She probably stood as much chance of being picked as a two-term governor from Arkansas whose only foreign policy experience was the International House of Pancakes, or a two-term governor from Texas whose only foreign policy experience was badly mangled Spanish to match his badly mangled English. Or a obscure lawmaker from Illinois who had failed at every elected office he had ever sought after (Lincoln) or a failed haberdasher (Truman). I think the main thing that would have prevented her from being picked is actually one of her strong points; to wit, she isn't as much a part of the Washington machinery. Certainly not as much of a part of the machinery as a multi-term senator from Arizona.
Now as for Biden, I have no doubt that the was picked to try to address some of Obama's perceived weaknesses, which could be smart. But at the end of the day, Joe Biden is an old Washington insider with at least two failed presidential runs under his belt and in his last attempts, brought in roughly 2% of the primary vote. Hardly 'change we can believe in' or whatever the slogan is this week. __________________
1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Posted: 16 Sep 2008 05:45
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Quote: whatever the slogan is this week.
'Change we need'. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
