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| Posted: 05 Sep 2008 20:24 |
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I actually took some notes...
First off, to his credit, this is the best speech he's given since becoming a candidate. He spoke clearly, with confidence, with very much fewer stumbles than I'd become accustomed to. Toward the end you could see the energy and passion a candidate at this stage of the game should have. Even his handling of the 'hecklers' was handled with (can't believe this!) grace as he told the crowd to drown out the static and ground noise.
Speaking of the hecklers; I am as much for free speech as anyone(more than most actually) but this was not the time or place for it. Clearly against house rules in the clearly republican house.
Do you remember the Star Wars movie where Luke removes Darth Vader's mask so he can see his dad's face? I was reminded of that every time he smiled at the camera. Seriously, this guy must never smile, at least not on camera-he's really really bad at it. Less teeth would have been less creepy. Sorry-just an honest observation. Back to the speech.
He said he was proud of President Bush in those dark days after 9/11? For a guy trying to distance himself from the Bush administration, what an odd and dumb way to do this. You'll notice how he stumbled a little bit there-perhaps he was thinking the same thing I did. Bush created those dark days. If anyone doubts that he was distancing himself from this administration, notice how he did not mention either Bush in his list of Presidents from this party, or how he wants to get his party back to basics.
Something bothered me even more right after that though. He wants to offer parents more choices in their children's education. Hmm. The options he listed are already here. I really don't like what he might be implying-we can't afford stupider children, we simply can't.
On a positive note, it was nice to hear a candidate say out loud that they work for us, not their party, their special interests, or themselves. It's really unfortunate how hollow those words become when you look at the bulk of his advisors and backers and see the oil interests therein, and worse later when he insists on drill, drill, drill as any sort of solution.
On a positive note which I have no rebuttal for, he says he wants to show the world how Americans lead again. He threw Bush under the bus very nicely here. I guess maybe he thought Clinton was going under the same bus. I can live with both.
OK, I almost pissed myself on this one. He hates war. OMG. No way. He started talking about peace immediately after insisting there are problems in Iran and Russia we can't turn a blind eye to. Let's not forget he was a POW. His camp keep pointing it out as a badge of courage and dedication, which I certainly can't argue with. Let's also remember that what goes with being a POW are anger and resentment. This guy is not known for being level headed either- EVER. I have three predictions if McCain should somehow win the election. There will be rice paddies at Camp David, they will find WMD's in Viet Nam and there will have been a military strike on US soil again before the election.
Two more actual positive points. Something I'd actually like in anyone who gets the job. A willingness to work with anyone, regardless of party- our government seems broken to me-what a great way to start repairing it. He also promoted a government of transparency and accountability-wonderful.
I'm still not voting for the guy, but I am looking more forward to the upcoming debates than I was previously.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 05 Sep 2008 23:40 |
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He wants to offer parents more choices in their children's education. Hmm. The options he listed are already here. Explain please.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 06 Sep 2008 01:09 |
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Explain please.
The options he listed were private schools and such. Things we already have.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 06 Sep 2008 04:20 |
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I would have to look at the text of teh speech again, but are you actually claiming that the government doesn't have a near monopoly on education and year after year charges more (actually takes the money by force) for an increasingly inferior product?
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 06 Sep 2008 04:29 |
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(climbing up on my soapbox) What has boggled my mind for years about the education industry is their vitriolic reaction to anything resembling choice or accountability. If it was really about making sure that American children got the best possible education, would it really matter if they went to a charter school or a home school or a private school? Why are the teacher's union so terrified that people would flee from their failing government monoliths if they had a choice? Would vouchers really cause the teacher's union to break out in a cold sweat if it was really about the children instead of being about their own power? (climbing down from my soapbox)
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 06 Sep 2008 06:01 |
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but are you actually claiming that the government doesn't have a near monopoly on education
No, I was claiming a hint of danger as a reaction to what and how he spoke.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 06 Sep 2008 15:04 |
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What danger do you see, Pak?
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 06 Sep 2008 16:31 |
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McCain gets elected-that's the danger I see.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 07 Sep 2008 04:50 |
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And that is dangerous how?
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 07 Sep 2008 05:20 |
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He sucks...(how many more questions we gonna go with this?)
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 07 Sep 2008 19:21 |
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About McCain hating war. That's easy to see as he's seen war first hand. He probably hates it more than any of us.
As far as his anger bit, as a person that has to strive daily to control his temper I can relate. Most of the time I lose my temper when I feel extremely passionate about something or some task. It's part of the process some people go through before they tackle a problem. When I get serious about something I have really hard time controlling my temper. It's like it's going to get done or else kind of feeling vs an oh well if it works it works.
What really made me happy was when he said he would not sign any bill with pork barrel spending and further more he'd make the politicians that sent it to his desk famous. I wanted to shout hallelujah!
This man maybe the last chance America has to balance the budget. If you want to know where Bush screwed up the most it wasn't policies in Iraq. It was spending. Obama has been just basically promising to spend 5 times more than Bush.
As far as school choices he mentioned. It was something Bush promised and never delivered. We need school vouchers. We need to create competition in the schools, and we need to hold teachers accountable just like any other profession. After all they have one of the most important jobs out there.
I liked when McCain said he didn't work for a party he worked for the people. I heard Rush Limbaugh the other day, and he was ticked at that statement. I'm not because a party can push for the wrong things sometimes, but working for the country first means doing the right thing regardless. That's why the republicans are in trouble now for going along party lines with Bush's excess spending.
Obama is the danger. He's going to going outspend Bush by 5 times at least. He thinks it's the government's job to fix everything.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 00:19 |
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preach, I originally dismissed your posts as trying to just grill me for an opinion. I did not realise how uninformed I was on the voucher issue. I'm trying to get my head around it but the info I'm finding is contradictory and not substantial. It's mostly emotional pleas, doomsday and utopia solutions and a complete lack of concrete data.
We have a problem with our school system(s). We all know this. I'm just not convinced vouchers are a solution as is, from what I've seen so far. Like I said, I'm still trying to figure it out. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the subject.
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Tim, I don't believe his personal experiences are enough for him to not see the profits of war and try to attain them. He's already committed himself to not only taking as long as necessary in Iraq but also taking on a sizable portion of the developed world as well-he's aiming for king of the world and I don't believe for a second his actual goals have anything at all to do with peace. I also worry that Obama has no reason to look for peace either, but he at least hasn't stated as much yet.
Not being able to control your temper is a huge failing in any type of leader. There's no justification.
Our economy is in shreds. I don't see anyone solving this. If I were to place a bet on someone at least moving us in a positive direction, I would have to go with someone closer to Clinton than Bush. While I'm on it, McCain's economic policies appear to be identical to Bush's(I know you're happy about the earmark attack he promises-I can't believe him here either based on who he has for VP nominee and her past bridge earmarks).
I'm gonna leave the school voucher issue alone for the moment. If you could explain why we 'need' them, I'd be glad to hear it. I'm really not clear what you're talking about with school competition or teacher accountability.
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After all they have one of the most important jobs out there.
You're not running for office. Please stop doing this.
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Obama is the danger. He's going to going outspend Bush by 5 times at least.
How is that Obama will spend so much and McCain will not?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 00:51 |
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the term "voucher' covers a lot of ground, Pak. The basic notion is that there is X amount of money being spent per student in the government schools, with pretty dismal results. Vouchers allow the parent to designate that money to the school of their choice. It makes schools public and private, compete for the same money that is already being spent per student without it automatically disappearing into a black hole of bureaucracy.
There is potential for abuse, obviously, and it is not the end all be all solution. If they instituted vouchers in my area I would continue to home school. But I think it's a step in the right direction.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 16:05 |
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I'm just not convinced vouchers are a solution as is, from what I've seen so far. Like I said, I'm still trying to figure it out. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the subject. The best case scenario with vouchers is this. Say in your average community you have a family that can't afford to send their kids to the local private school which just happens to be top notch. The public school in the area is so so as is in most areas. With a voucher the parents who couldn't afford it before can now send jr. to the superior private school.
See the teachers unions don't like this I believe because it takes the power from their hands. Less money for the public schools and less students means that teachers that aren't performing that caused the situation might be looking for employment elsewhere. In the mean time good hard working teachers move to the private schools.
In a lot of areas I actually believe even the public schools may see improvements. They need a foot up their you know what to get them going again.
War - McCain knows how painful war is. He also knows how painful it can be when the enemies of the U.S get their way with us. The only way to deal with aggression is to be prepared strategically. You can't wait for an attack. You need to be proactive and of course obviously without starting a needless war. There is no way though that we can live without some form of combat going on between the U.S. and somebody else forever unless we want to just bend over and take whatever the terrorist or commies want to give us.
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Not being able to control your temper is a huge failing in any type of leader. There's no justification. It's not having a temper that's bad, it's what you do once you get angry that matters. Even Jesus got angry when he threw out the moneychangers from the temple.
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Our economy is in shreds. If it were in shreds we wouldn't have economists suggesting they believe we will hit a turn around next year. In shreds sounds like we will never recover and wind up like the Great Depression. That ain't happening at this point. When you start seeing former fat people getting thin then we'll talk about an economy in shreds.
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You're not running for office. Please stop doing this I was in mood of not being argumentative. I was trying to be nice.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 19:44 Last Edited By: pakratmak |
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Say in your average...With a voucher the parents who couldn't afford it before can now send jr. to the superior private school.
I thought you guys were against socialist programs, which is exactly what this sounds like.
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Less money for the public schools
How exactly will cutting funds on a near failure of a system actually lead to it's improvement instead of it's extinction? If you do want public schools privatized, why use the unnecessary step of vouchers at all?
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You need to be proactive and of course obviously without starting a needless war.
And yet, as we speak, forces are already in Iraq in what started as a pre-emptive strike. Yet, as we speak, they are setting up a defensive shield and military presence in Israel while Iran is surrounded by more of our military from all sides. Think of what he has in store for China and Russia while you're at it-McCain is literally 'asking for it' by following and advancing Bush's world police mentality. If you think McCain is going to avoid aggression with our military or aim for peace, you're lying to yourself.
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we wouldn't have economists suggesting they believe we will hit a turn around next year.
We do? Things are not that bad now but they'll get better later? I thought you watched that 3 part vid series about polls I posted prior to this...guess not.
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wind up like the Great Depression.
Since you brought that up...We have foreclosures and unemployment at rates nearing those during the Great Depression. There are also forces already at play which are ready to make that depression look like the 'good old days'.
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When you start seeing former fat people getting thin then we'll talk about an economy in shreds.
Funny thing. As the economy gets worse, people will get unhealthier, especially on all our chemically engineered prepackaged garbage found in a typical supermarket-especially when that's all you can afford to feed your family with.
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I was in mood of not being argumentative. I was trying to be nice.
See? This is a great lesson in honesty. When you're dishonest, you have to keep being dishonest to cover up for previous dishonesties. Remember this for the morality thread.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 21:09 |
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We have foreclosures and unemployment at rates nearing those during the Great Depression. Really? Unemployment is at 25%? Hmmmm..when Clinton was president, 6% was considered full employment.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 21:12 |
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when Clinton was president, 6% was considered full employment.
This isn't about who's in office, whether Clinton or Bush. What are the actual figures?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 21:46 |
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I thought you guys were against socialist programs, which is exactly what this sounds like. It's the same money being spent on public schools.
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How exactly will cutting funds on a near failure of a system actually lead to it's improvement instead of it's extinction? The reasoning is that the public schools are getting a free ride. If they have to earn the money maybe they'll get their act together.
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If you think McCain is going to avoid aggression with our military or aim for peace, you're lying to yourself. See I don't think you can avoid aggression with some countries by just kissing their butts all the time. Sometimes you have to behave in a strong manner so that they respect you, and not the hippy love Europe kind of respect either. I mean manly respect because they know we ain't playing. It's just like high school when the jocks pick on the smaller kids. Bullies don't mess with the guy that's 6 feet tall 250 pounds of muscle and has a big evil grin on his face.
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I thought you watched that 3 part vid series about polls I posted prior to this...guess not. What's public opinion polls got to do with the opinions of economists?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 21:48 |
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July 31, 2008
State unemployment, June 2008
Rank State Rate
1 SOUTH DAKOTA 2.8
2 NORTH DAKOTA 3.2
2 UTAH 3.2
2 WYOMING 3.2
5 NEBRASKA 3.3
6 HAWAII 3.8
6 IDAHO 3.8
6 LOUISIANA 3.8
9 NEW MEXICO 3.9
9 OKLAHOMA 3.9
11 IOWA 4.0
11 MARYLAND 4.0
11 NEW HAMPSHIRE 4.0
11 VIRGINIA 4.0
15 MONTANA 4.1
16 DELAWARE 4.2
17 KANSAS 4.3
18 TEXAS 4.4
19 WISCONSIN 4.6
20 ALABAMA 4.7
20 VERMONT 4.7
22 ARIZONA 4.8
23 ARKANSAS 5.0
24 COLORADO 5.1
25 MASSACHUSETTS 5.2
25 PENNSYLVANIA 5.2
27 MAINE 5.3
27 MINNESOTA 5.3
27 NEW JERSEY 5.3
27 NEW YORK 5.3
27 WEST VIRGINIA 5.3
32 CONNECTICUT 5.4
33 FLORIDA 5.5
33 OREGON 5.5
33 WASHINGTON 5.5
36 GEORGIA 5.7
36 MISSOURI 5.7
38 INDIANA 5.8
39 NORTH CAROLINA 6.0
40 SOUTH CAROLINA 6.2
41 KENTUCKY 6.3
42 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 6.4
42 NEVADA 6.4
44 TENNESSEE 6.5
45 OHIO 6.6
46 ALASKA 6.8
46 ILLINOIS 6.8
48 CALIFORNIA 6.9
48 MISSISSIPPI 6.9
50 RHODE ISLAND 7.5
51 MICHIGAN 8.5
from Clinton News Network
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/state_unemployment/index.html
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Sep 2008 23:57 |
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It's the same money being spent on public schools.
Still supporting a social program.
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The reasoning is that the public schools are getting a free ride. If they have to earn the money maybe they'll get their act together.
Power mad and on the loose gambling away a fortune? I don't know what 'free ride' means here-please explain.
Also explain how they are supposed to be 'earning' it exactly.
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Bullies don't mess with the guy that's 6 feet tall 250 pounds of muscle and has a big evil grin on his face.
Yep. We shoot those first. It's the only way to stay safe, right?
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What's public opinion polls got to do with the opinions of economists?
What's an opinion poll got to do with someone's opinion?......c'mon.....
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State unemployment, June 2008
Nice low percentages. You've got me there. They don't match the Great Depression. They're not even 'nearing'-we're doing just fabulous.
Let's see what the US bureau of Labor Statistics says on the matter of unemployment that those percentages are not saying.
http://stats.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
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THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: AUGUST 2008
The unemployment rate rose from 5.7 to 6.1 percent in August, and non-
farm payroll employment continued to trend down (-84,000), the Bureau of
Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. In August,
employment fell in manufacturing and employment services, while mining and
health care continued to add jobs. Average hourly earnings rose by 7 cents,
or 0.4 percent, over the month.
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Unemployment (Household Survey Data)
The number of unemployed persons rose by 592,000 to 9.4 million in August,
and the unemployment rate increased by 0.4 percentage point to 6.1 percent.
Over the past 12 months, the number of unemployed persons has increased by
2.2 million and the unemployment rate has risen by 1.4 percentage points,
with most of the increase occurring over the past 4 months.
That's 2.2 million for the past year, 592k in the month of July alone(though I might be reading this wrong).
Someone can maybe explain this next part to me please. I must be reading it wrong.
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Total Employment and the Labor Force (Household Survey Data)
The civilian labor force, at 154.9 million, was about unchanged in August,
and the labor force participation rate remained at 66.1 percent.
I don't want to think that I took this out of context, but I probably did. It looks like almost 34% to me.
What is the measurement for unemployment please, anyone?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 02:40 |
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This isn't about who's in office, whether Clinton or Bush. What are the actual figures? 6.1 % is hardly the 25% of the Great Depression or even the 8.5% (you might want to fact check me there) high of the Carter administration. To compare this to the Great Depression (which was government caused) is as ludicrous as Bill Clinton's repeated claims in 1991 that we were in 'the worst economy in 50 years'.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 05:45 |
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As I posted up there, I see a figure that says near 34%. What is that?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 00:19 |
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The unemployment figure is derived from the number of people filing for unemployment benefits. a bit of a fluid number, I'll admit, but probably as good an indicator as any.
You know in my house there is an over 90% unemployment rate. There are six of us and one of us works. Of course, 3 of us are under 6 and 1 of us isn't born yet. I use that to indicate how taking the total population and bouncing off the total employment gives you some skewed numbers.
Think about it, are a third of the people you know out of work? Or even a fourth? Or even a tenth?
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 00:51 |
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hm...that figure says the civilian labor force. I would have to guess this does not include six year olds but does include more people than the ones who file.
Most of the people I know are from work or places where they work. I'm fairly sure out of work people might hang in clusters as well. I don't know where averages come into play here.
I'm beginning to think that the main reason for so many problems not getting solved is that people just can't agree on what they are to solve them.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 12 Sep 2008 03:29 |
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Even if you discount 6 year olds, I don't think you could 'gin up' a 34% unemployment rate. That, dear friend , would qualify as a crisis. Even in the Great Depression it never got that high.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 12 Sep 2008 04:29 |
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I don't think you could 'gin up' a 34% unemployment rate. That, dear friend , would qualify as a crisis. Even in the Great Depression it never got that high.
I know this. I just want some realistic figures and to know what measure is being used to find them.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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