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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 02:45 |
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I call it a moral obligation because of my Christian beliefs.
Just so you know, Pak, this next part is not aimed at you, since you already agreed with my opinion on judgement.
Most liberals use that verse from Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge lest you be judged" to shut you up, but they're taking Jesus's statements out of context. So lets look at the full quote, instead of just part of it:
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Do not judge lest you be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Mt. 7:1-5)
Instead of explaining this in my own words, I'll let Frank Turek do it for me. He can interpret it better than I can.
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Notice Jesus isn’t telling us not to judge—Jesus is telling us how to judge. He actually commands us to take the speck out of our brother’s eye—that involves making a judgment. But he also commands us to stop committing the bigger sins ourselves so we can better help our brother. In other words, when you judge, do so rightly not hypocritically.
Jesus expressed this same idea when he said “stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment” (John 7:24). Jesus would never tell us to stop judging-- that would be suicide! Just think about how impossible life would be if you didn’t make judgments. You make hundreds, if not thousands, of judgments every day between good and evil, right and wrong, dangerous choices from safe ones. You’d be dead already if you didn’t make judgments.
What does this have to do with politics? Every law is a judgment about what’s best for society. Homosexual activists are making a judgment that same-sex marriage would be the best law for society. It’s a wrong judgment as I’ve argued in this column before (Gay Marriage: Even Liberals Know it’s Bad), but it’s a judgment nonetheless.
So in addition to being self-defeating, the belief that we “ought not judge” is completely impractical and even dangerous. Making judgments is unavoidable both personally and politically. If you want to meet a sudden and premature demise, just stop making judgments.
Unfortunately, liberals are propelling our society toward a premature demise by making the disastrous judgment that we ought not make judgments about their behavior. They, of course, can judge our behavior as immoral when we oppose same-sex marriage or the killing of the unborn. But we are not to judge their behavior. This is exactly the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus warned against. The passage they quote actually convicts them!
For folks so concerned about the “separation of church and state,” it’s amazing how fast liberals quote the Bible when they think it helps their case. Don’t let them get away with that. If they believe the Bible when they think it condemns judging (which it doesn’t), then ask them why they don’t believe the Bible when it certainly condemns homosexuality. If they want to use the Bible as their standard, then they will be judged by that same standard.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 03:34 |
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There's still a difference between making judgments and what you do with them. He does not seem to be addressing this.
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He actually commands us to take the speck out of our brother’s eye
disagree.
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You make hundreds, if not thousands, of judgments every day
agree
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You’d be dead already if you didn’t make judgments.
extreme, but agree
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Every law is a judgment about what’s best for society
close, but not quite.
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Homosexual activists are making a judgment that same-sex marriage would be the best law for society.
Actually, it's an equal rights issue.
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Gay Marriage: Even Liberals Know it’s Bad
Most of us don't care, but we see inequality for what it is.
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liberals are propelling our society toward a premature demise
Idiot.
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They, of course, can judge our behavior as immoral when we oppose same-sex marriage or the killing of the unborn.
Imposing and selfish, not immoral.
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This is exactly the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus warned against. The passage they quote actually convicts them!
Huge idiot.
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For folks so concerned about the “separation of church and state,” it’s amazing how fast liberals quote the Bible when they think it helps their case.
This does not even make sense.
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If they believe the Bible when they think it condemns judging
I don't need to believe in the book to show somebody what they might be skipping over.
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ask them why they don’t believe the Bible when it certainly condemns homosexuality.
I'd like to ask this nitwit what he thinks of slavery, misogeny and genocide if he's so obviously against picking and choosing.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 04:01 |
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I wish you wouldn't call him an idiot. I really admire this guy. I have one of his books, but I haven't read it. I've been watching weekly television programs on it, and I like his views very much.
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He actually commands us to take the speck out of our brother’s eye
disagree.
Why?
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Homosexual activists are making a judgment that same-sex marriage would be the best law for society.
Actually, it's an equal rights issue.
They still judge that its the best law for society.
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liberals are propelling our society toward a premature demise
Idiot.
No. I understand his point of view here.
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They, of course, can judge our behavior as immoral when we oppose same-sex marriage or the killing of the unborn.
Imposing and selfish, not immoral.
They can judge it as immoral, for we are "denying equal rights." As for the killing of the unborn, that is not only extremely immoral, but also VERY selfish.
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This is exactly the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus warned against. The passage they quote actually convicts them!
Huge idiot.
Again, no. They tell us its wrong to judge, yet they do it themselves, then they use a verse from the Bible to prove us wrong, when it actually proves themselves wrong!
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For folks so concerned about the “separation of church and state,” it’s amazing how fast liberals quote the Bible when they think it helps their case.
This does not even make sense.
He is saying that liberals want God out of everything, but yet they quote the Bible whenever they think they can use it against us.
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ask them why they don’t believe the Bible when it certainly condemns homosexuality.
I'd like to ask this nitwit what he thinks of slavery, misogeny and genocide if he's so obviously against picking and choosing.
I'd like to see you ask that "nitwit" and I would like even more to see his response.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 05:45 |
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I wish you wouldn't call him an idiot.
Tis my judgment of him for what he said.
I disagree with Jesus commanding you to judge others. If this is right or wrong preach can correct and instruct, but until I hear a better explanation, I disagree.
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They still judge that its the best law for society.
I think you're missing the point or the difference.
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I understand his point of view here.
Does not make him or you right for it.
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As for the killing of the unborn, that is not only extremely immoral, but also VERY selfish.
Case by case. There are times when it becomes a necessity, just like there are times when it is necessary to kill the full birthed and fully grown.
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then they use a verse from the Bible to prove us wrong,
When I use a quote from the Bible, it's usually to show a supposed 'good Christian' how they're being a hypocrite from what's on the page.
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He is saying that liberals want God out of everything,
Then he is wrong. We don't want your religion opposed on us-that's all. Remember how you don't want a Muslim in office? Same thing.
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I'd like to see you ask that "nitwit" and I would like even more to see his response.
Isn't it great when we can agree on something? 
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 06:11 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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Case by case. There are times when it becomes a necessity, just like there are times when it is necessary to kill the full birthed and fully grown.
The only time it is ever necessary to kill the fully grown it is in the case of capital punishment. But where abortion is concerned, it usually happens when an unmarried girl makes a mistake, ends up pregnant and decides she doesn't want the responsibility and decides to murder innocent life.
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When I use a quote from the Bible, it's usually to show a supposed 'good Christian' how they're being a hypocrite from what's on the page.
Yeah, that's what the liberals do and you see how Frank Turek can turn it around on them when they use that verse from Matthew 7:1 that everybody likes to use as a weapon against us.
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Then he is wrong. We don't want your religion opposed on us-that's all. Remember how you don't want a Muslim in office? Same thing
Its the way its always been. This nation was founded on Christian values, and our Pledge of Alegiance was written with the words "Under God", and if you don't like it, don't say it, we don't care. But just because some people may feel offended, it doesn't mean we should get rid of that line.
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I think you're missing the point or the difference.
No, I got the point. Just because it may to you be about equal rights, the homosexuals are judging that its okay to be homosexual.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 07:39 |
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The only time it is ever necessary to kill the fully grown it is in the case of capital punishment.
What about war and self defense?
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But where abortion is concerned,
It's a sad account and it does happen too much. But, it's not the only account.
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you see how Frank Turek can turn it around on them
No, he actually doesn't succeed in 'turning it back on us'. We aren't telling other people to follow a rule list we aren't following ourselves. Frank failed.
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This nation was founded on Christian values,
False.
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our Pledge of Alegiance was written with the words "Under God",
False.
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But just because some people may feel offended, it doesn't mean we should get rid of that line.
So let's put Yehovah and Allah on our money while we're at it. Just because they don't belong is no reason not to have them either. It's not a matter of offense.
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No, I got the point.
I don't think you do. Show me that it's not about equality.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 17:22 |
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What about war and self defense?
Oh yeah, those too.
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No, he actually doesn't succeed in 'turning it back on us'. We aren't telling other people to follow a rule list we aren't following ourselves. Frank failed.
The verse from the Bible that the liberals use to shut us up can actually prove that we are right in being judgemental.
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False.
How so?
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So let's put Yehovah and Allah on our money while we're at it. Just because they don't belong is no reason not to have them either. It's not a matter of offense.
You must be forgetting that America isn't an atheistic country. If its anything its Christian. Its our Pledge of Allegiance for crying out loud. Leave it alone.
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I don't think you do. Show me that it's not about equality.
The homos want "qual rights" so that one man can marry another man--which is an immoral and unnatural behavior. This twists the definition of marriage, and changes it completely! Marriage is the holy matrimony between one man and one woman. If that is what you call "equal rights", then America doesn't need them.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 18:06 |
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The verse from the Bible that the liberals use to shut us up can actually prove that we are right in being judgemental.
I would suggest to you that any person can find justification for anything they want in the Bible by selecting the right passage and explaining their interpretation.
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You must be forgetting that America isn't an atheistic country.
I never said it was an atheistic country-the word is secular. We are not a Christian nation excepting when talking about the amount of religious followers.
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If its anything its Christian.
I remember you acknowledging my post about this before. A quick review:
The Constitution is a secular document that addresses 'we the people' and makes no mention of God or Jesus or Christianity. There are exactly two references to religion in it-no religious test as qualification to any office or public trust in article six and Congress not making laws for or against religion in the first amendment. The Presidential oath detailed in this document does not include the words 'so help me God' or require the elected to swear on a Bible.
In 1797, in the treaty with Tripoli, John Adams approved the declaration that 'the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion' as part of the whole treaty. Washington was President.
American law is not based on the ten commandments. Only three of the commandments have any pertinence to our laws(homicide, theft and perjury), and these can be traced back to the days of Hammurabai being on public record-actually carved in stone. Our laws are secular and based (sometimes loosely unfortunately) on 'Justice For All'-a human principal. Our criminal justice system is also secular and not based on any religious doctrine.
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Its our Pledge of Allegiance for crying out loud. Leave it alone.
Our. Remember that word. Our. Secular. Multicultural. Our. Nondenominational. Our. Nonselective. Inclusive. Our.
Not yours, not mine. Ours.
The words 'under God' were added to the Pledge in 1954, during McCarthyism-to stop the 'red terror' bogeymen. Similarly, Congress also approved the mandate that 'In God We Trust' appeared on all currency in 1955, for similar reasons. McCarthyism is long gone, and so should these phrases be too, as they never belonged in the first place, being directly contrary to the first amendment.
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which is an immoral and unnatural behavior.
Nobody is telling you to marry another guy. You don't have to do a thing. Your morality is perfectly safe from whatever they do.
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This twists the definition of marriage,
Perhaps keeping it so narrow in definition is the actual twisting.
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Marriage is the holy matrimony
Marriage has no necessity of being 'holy' to be recogonized by the secular state. Your narrow definition strikes again?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 19:01 |
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Perhaps keeping it so narrow in definition is the actual twisting.
And it should be so narrow. That's what marriage is. Between one man and one woman.
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Marriage has no necessity of being 'holy' to be recogonized by the secular state. Your narrow definition strikes again?
Marriage is holy. Why do you think people are married using words from the Bible?
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Nobody is telling you to marry another guy.
That doesn't make it okay. It is still unnatural and immoral and it shouldn't be allowed in this country.
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I would suggest to you that any person can find justification for anything they want in the Bible by selecting the right passage and explaining their interpretation.
Yeah, they can find the justification they want by reading the first part of the passage, and pertend the rest of it isn't there.
The liberals are trying to turn America into a atheistic coutnry by stripping us of our traditional family and Christian values. One example--the phrases "mom" and "dad" have been banned in California schools, because they can be considered offensive to homosexuals. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard! So what are they going to call it then? Parent A and Parent B?
One last thing I'd like to add, Pak. This a quote by Ronald Reagan a friend of mine just told me about. I like this quote so much I ever considered making it my signature for this site:
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"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 19:35 |
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And it should be so narrow
No, it shouldn't. We can do this all day.
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Why do you think people are married using words from the Bible?
Unless they're Jewish. Or married in city hall. Or by a justice of the peace. Or by Elvis at a drive thru wedding chapel.
Does not have to be a strictly holy ceremony.
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That doesn't make it okay.
Your personal religious beliefs do not make it 'not OK' for someone outside your religion.
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Yeah, they can find the justification they want
I meant for absolutely everything and anything, not just quote mining this one passage.
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pertend the rest of it isn't there.
Is it really any better to ignore the first part to uphold the rest?
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The liberals are trying to turn America into a atheistic coutnry
uhm...no.
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stripping us of our traditional family and Christian values.
Two gays want to get married and this strips you of what?
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One example--the phrases "mom" and "dad" have been banned in California schools,
I doubt this. It sounds quite stupid to me too. You'll need some proof this has actually happened.
I know you guys love Reagen so I'll be very respectful and say 'so what?' to a quote by him. It does not aid your arguments. In that spirit I'll drop a quote I like too by Gallagher.
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three rights can make a left.
Just as helpful, yes?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 19:59 |
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No, it shouldn't. We can do this all day.
I suppose we can. but I really can't, you see its Saturday, and that means college football all day long...
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Does not have to be a strictly holy ceremony.
But traditionally a minister.
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Your personal religious beliefs do not make it 'not OK' for someone outside your religion.
This just goes back to my beleifs about morality. They are set rules, not made-up.
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I doubt this. It sounds quite stupid to me too. You'll need some proof this has actually happened.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58130
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I know you guys love Reagen so I'll be very respectful and say 'so what?' to a quote by him. It does not aid your arguments.
It doesn't matter. I added it because I liked the quote--I thought I said that already though.
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Two gays want to get married and this strips you of what?
It strips America of that fixed definition of one man-one woman marriage.
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Is it really any better to ignore the first part to uphold the rest?
When I quote it, I quote the whole thing.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 20:56 Last Edited By: pakratmak |
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But traditionally a minister.
Or a Rabbi, or the Mayor, or an Elivs impersonator. Your tradition, not everyone's.
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They are set rules, not made-up.
Your religion, your rules, not to be imposed on everyone else in our secular society.
Your 'news article' is trash. Here's a link to the actual bill. Read the actual bill for yourself instead of just relying on that propaganda.
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/sen/sb_0751-0800/sb_777_bil ...
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It strips America of that fixed definition of one man-one woman marriage.
America does not fixate on that definition, you guys do.
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When I quote it, I quote the whole thing.
Not what I asked.
------------------------------------------
This has been a wonderful set of detours. Back to basics.
Is Obama a Muslim? No. Until someone can provide some sort of evidence to the contrary, that's what the answer stays.
Is Obama a Christian? Yes. Until you can provide some evidence that he's lying, that what this answer stays.
Does anyone have the right to feign authority or knowledge that they do not actually have? No.
Where to next?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 21:04 |
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Is Obama a Christian? Yes.
Hmm you know I wonder. Forgetting about the worry about him being a closet Muslim with intent to destroy America, I still have my doubts. Just saying I'm a Christian is easy, but you know somebody by their works and practices.
Maybe he isn't a Muslim, but I'd still have problems buying into the idea he's a real genuine Christian. Christians don't usually say things like GD America or support those that do. I'm not saying he couldn't be a Christian cause God only knows for sure.
I just don't think he takes God and the Bible very seriously. I don't even think he really knows the Bible. I think in his heart he thinks people that believe in God are all small town red necks that use religion as a crutch. Where have I heard that before?
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 21:58 |
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Just saying I'm a Christian is easy, but you know somebody by their works and practices.
Like someone who creates their own comics, which are clearly graven images? Completely agree.
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I'd still have problems buying into the idea he's a real genuine Christian.
You're entitled to that. Just remember we're not picking a Pope, we're picking a politician. Isn't there something about being a politician in the first place that's a bit negative in the first place? There nothing humble, meek or pious about a power grab.
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Where have I heard that before?
Faux News. Try changing the channel once in a while.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Sep 2008 23:41 |
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Or a Rabbi, or the Mayor, or an Elivs impersonator. Your tradition, not everyone's.
You ever watch television, Pak? Read a book? Been to a wedding? In most cases, its a minister.
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Your religion, your rules, not to be imposed on everyone else in our secular society.
Not my rules. God's rules.
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Your 'news article' is trash. Here's a link to the actual bill. Read the actual bill for yourself instead of just relying on that propaganda.
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Existing law states that it is the policy of the state to afford
equal rights and opportunities to all persons in the public or
private elementary and secondary schools and postsecondary
educational institutions of the state regardless of their sex, ethnic
group identification, race, national origin, religion, or mental or
physical disability and prohibits a person from being subjected to
discrimination on those bases.
Existing law prohibits a teacher from giving instruction, and a
school district from sponsoring any activity, that reflects adversely
upon persons because of their race, sex, color, creed, handicap,
national origin, or ancestry.
Existing law prohibits the State Board of Education and the
governing board of a school district from adopting for use in the
public schools any instructional materials that reflect adversely
upon persons because of their race, sex, color, creed, handicap,
national origin, or ancestry.
There. That includes "mom" and "dad" because "it reflects adversely upon persons because of their sex". Also, it means boys can use the girls room and vice versa if they choose.
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America does not fixate on that definition, you guys do.
A few states don't fixate on that definition, but at least for right now, the rest of America does.
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Faux News. Try changing the channel once in a while.
Its better than CNN...
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Like someone who creates their own comics, which are clearly graven images? Completely agree.
Don't think I quite got that one.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 14 Sep 2008 00:12 |
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In most cases, its a minister.
Always? No.
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That includes "mom" and "dad" because "it reflects adversely upon persons because of their sex". Also, it means boys can use the girls room and vice versa if they choose.
The bill doesn't say, imply or advocate such stupidity. Read it again.
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A few states don't fixate on that definition, but at least for right now, the rest of America does.
I had eight different replies to this. I'll be nice instead. What's your source?
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Don't think I quite got that one.
Was to Tim. He should get it.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 14 Sep 2008 00:25 |
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I have several. One of my favorites:
Cruel tricks for dear friends. Penn & Teller. That's a good one, I have it myself.
__________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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