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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 02:31 |
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My source is WorldNetDaily, in case anyone wants to check me on this.
On September 7th, Barack Obama was on an interview on ABC with George Stephanopoulos. He made the following statement:
Quote: "Let's not play games, What I was suggesting – you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith. And you're absolutely right that that has not come."
The other guy said "Christian faith" and Obama quickly corrected himself.
So Obama has been lying all along. __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 02:34 |
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C'mon Steve, this is a bit of a cheap shot. isn't the man allowed to misspeak, especially since the topic of discussion was rumors that he is a Muslim? __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 03:08 |
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I don't think so...he did call it "my" Muslim faith, and I'm not so sure it was just a simple bad choice of words. He may have actually goofed this time. But it doesn't matter though. Americans won't know about it because of the liberal media.
Quote: Aside from a new website to fight purported smears, Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
That's not true. He had to change that once it came out that he had been a Muslim. __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 05:04 |
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Steve Rogers and GOParty belong together. Maybe then they'll have half a brain.
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 05:34 |
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Quote: I don't think so...he did call it "my" Muslim faith
This is part of that personal nonsense we're talking about in the other thread. It is personal and it is nonsense.
Let's play make believe a second. You're one of the candidates. The other camp has made an assertion that you have no penis in a 30 second ad. You go on meet the press and they confront you about it. You might say something like 'My opponent himself has said nothing about my not having a penis, that was one of his supporters whom I've recently pistol whipped with my manhood in retaliation'.
Is your candidate so absolutely devoid of any good point beside his biography that you guys have to keep doing this? Seriously... __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 14:02 |
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Alright. You got me there, Pak.
I don't know that he is indeed a Muslim, but I do know that he was (not that there's anything wrong with that, its okay as long as its over now) and according to him, he later became saved. If he really did become saved or not is the question here. But I guess there will never really be enough evidence to argue this point. __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 10 Sep 2008 16:56 |
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Quote: If he really did become saved or not is the question here.
If we were voting in the next Pope maybe. It does not matter here. Just so we're clear, Palin's daughter doesn't matter for the job she's bucking for either. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 02:34 |
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Actually, Pak it should matter to you. Here's why: You have a problem with lying, right? You made that clear under the morality thread. Now imagine this situation: It is somehow revealed on the news that Obama is indeed a Muslim. This means that he purposefully decieved the American public to gain votes. He did this by lying.
What is your response? __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 02:40 Last Edited By: GOParty |
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Quote: Steve Rogers and GOParty belong together. Maybe then they'll have half a brain
That's half a brain more than you USE, spockman! I take solace in the future of the American voting system knowing that mentally, you are at least 19 years too young to vote. Do you actually pay attention to what's going on, or do you just come here to find thinking people to spew your venom on?
GOParty
 __________________Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do! - Benjamin Franklin 
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 02:48 |
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Quote: It is somehow revealed on the news that Obama is indeed a Muslim.
IF this happens, then he is totally discredited for having had invented the whole bit of show business with Reverend Wright and his faith and so on. He would have purposely perpetrated a fraud to presumably cover up some connection he didn't want discovered and we could never trust him again. The same thing would happen if we discovered McCain was Muslim. Neither one is though, and we're back at our discussion of double standards. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 02:49 |
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Quote: Maybe then they'll have half a brain. Quote: That's half a brain more than you USE, spockman!
Enough already-both of you. Please. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 03:30 |
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Quote: never trust him again.
Okay, Pak. Then you agree. His claim to be a Christian does matter. Right? __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 04:53 |
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Quote: His claim to be a Christian does matter. Right?
It's not important to me. It wouldn't have been important to me if he had been Muslim or Jewish either. On the other hand I couldn't have been more thrilled if he was an atheist and got as far as being a candidate even-nobody thinks that's possible-especially atheists. The subject of his faith apparently matters to alot of people. I don't think the subject should have ever come up actually. Regardless of what I think, it is out there, probably as a response to what people thought of him with the middle name of Hussein and the bomb sound in his last name.
How does someone making up that he's a Muslim equate to him doing something wrong? (I think I know the picture you want to show me already, so go ahead and post that so I can defend him again and we can move on back to the double standard issue). __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 05:11 |
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Its not important to you that his claim to be a Christian would be a lie? You may not care about faith, but doesn't it become something else when he lies about it? __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 06:56 |
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Quote: You may not care about faith, but doesn't it become something else when he lies about it?
If he had lied it would matter-I've said so already. Now prove he lied. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 13:33 |
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I'm not saying he did lie. i was still building on that possible scenario "It is somehow revealed on the news that Obama is indeed a Muslim." Now you have agreed his claim to be a Chirstian does matter, so I no longer need to argue that issue. __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 15:02 |
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Quote: Now you have agreed his claim to be a Chirstian does matter,
Not exactly what I said-it only matters if he represented himself as one thing to purposely cover up something else. It's the lie, not his faith, that creates issue. Whatever his faith is, by itself, does not matter. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 17:55 |
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Spockman is it still hard being a freshmen in high school these days, or have you gotten that high up yet? __________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 19:39 |
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Obama has denied all along that he was ever a Muslim. But we have substancial proof that he was. Even though he may not be now, this still shows that he has lied to the American people. __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 19:41 |
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Quote: But we have substancial proof that he was.
Were you planning on sharing it? Is it the photo I already requested? __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 19:51 |
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Photo? What photo?
Quote: But as WND reported, public records in Indonesia listed Obama as a Muslim during his early years, and a number of childhood friends claimed to the media Obama was once a mosque-attending Muslim.
Obama's campaign several times has wavered in response to reporters queries regarding the senator's childhood faith.
Commenting on a recent Los Angeles Times report quoting a childhood friend stating Obama prayed in a mosque – something the presidential candidate said he never did – Obama's campaign released a statement explaining the senator "has never been a practicing Muslim."
Widely distributed reports have noted that in January 1968, Obama was registered as a Muslim at Jakarta's Roman Catholic Franciscus Assisi Primary School under the name Barry Soetoro. He was listed as an Indonesian citizen whose stepfather, listed on school documents as "L Soetoro Ma," worked for the topography department of the Indonesian Army.
Catholic schools in Indonesia routinely accept non-Catholic students but exempt them from studying religion. Obama's school documents, though, wrongly list him as being Indonesian.
After attending the Assisi Primary School, Obama was enrolled – also as a Muslim, according to documents – in the Besuki Primary School, a public school in Jakarta.
The Loatze blog, run by an American expatriate in Southeast Asia who visited the Besuki school, noted: "All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school, and a young 'Barry Soetoro,' being a Muslim, would have been required to study Islam daily in school. He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam."
Indeed, in Obama's autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," he acknowledged studying the Quran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."
"In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Quranic studies," wrote Obama.
The Indonesian media have been flooded with accounts of Obama's childhood Islamic studies, some describing him as a religious Muslim.
Speaking to the country's Kaltim Post, Tine Hahiyary, who was principal of Obama's school while he was enrolled there, said she recalls he studied the Quran in Arabic.
"At that time, I was not Barry's teacher, but he is still in my memory" claimed Tine, who is 80 years old.
The Kaltim Post said Obama's teacher, named Hendri, died.
"I remember that he studied 'mengaji (recitation of the Quran)," Tine said, according to an English translation by Loatze.
Mengaji, or the act of reading the Quran with its correct Arabic punctuation, is usually taught to more religious pupils and is not known as a secular study.
Also, Loatze documented the Indonesian daily Banjarmasin Post interviewed Rony Amir, an Obama classmate and Muslim, who described Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."
"We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong (waist fabric worn for religious or casual occasions) he looked funny," Amir said.
The Los Angeles Times, which sent a reporter to Jakarta, quoted Zulfin Adi, who identified himself as among Obama's closest childhood friends, stating the presidential candidate prayed in a mosque, something Obama's campaign claimed he never did.
"We prayed, but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Adi.
Friday prayers
Aside from a new website to fight purported smears, Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
But the campaign changed its tune when it issued a "practicing Muslim" clarification to the Los Angeles Times.
An article in March by the Chicago Tribune apparently disputes Adi's statements to the L.A. paper. The Tribune caught up with Obama's declared childhood friend, who now describes himself as only knowing Obama for a few months in 1970 when his family moved to the neighborhood. Adi said he was unsure about his recollections of Obama.
But the Tribune found Obama did attend mosque.
"Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia," states the Tribune article.
It quotes the presidential candidate's former neighbors and third-grade teacher recalling Obama "occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers."
Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, notes the Tribune article – cited by liberal blogs as refuting claims Obama is Muslim – actually implies Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim and twice confirms Obama attended mosque services.
In a free-ranging interview with the New York Times, Obama described the Muslim call to prayer as "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset."
The Times' Nicholos Kristof wrote Obama recited, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent," the opening lines of the Muslim call to prayer.
The first few lines of the call to prayer state:
Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet ...
Some attention also has been paid to Obama's paternal side of the family, including his father and his brother, Roy.
Writing in a chapter of his book describing his 1992 wedding, the presidential candidate stated: "The person who made me proudest of all was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."
Still, Obama says he was raised by his Christian mother and repeatedly has labeled as "smears" several reports attempting to paint him as a Muslim. __________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 11 Sep 2008 20:30 Last Edited By: pakratmak |
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Quote: Photo? What photo?
There is a photo of him in ceremonial garb floating around people were trying to use to say he was a practicing Muslim.
Let's go over your quote.(please always list a link to your source in the future).
Quote: Widely distributed reports have noted that in January 1968,
How old was he then?
Quote: Obama's school documents, though, wrongly list him as being Indonesian.
Quote: Obama was enrolled – also as a Muslim, according to documents
If the papers were wrong about him being Indonesian, could they not also be wrong on being a Muslim? Even if this record is correct, that would seem to be his stepfather's doing and not his own.
Quote: he acknowledged studying the Quran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."
This is not a confirmation of the blog mentioned right before it. It's still a public school. I've personally studied alot more of the Bible than I ever intended to and am still atheist. Something sounding condemning and actually being condemning are two different things.
Maybe I'm missing something. Please show me where, in that first half, any account of his childhood that actually makes him a practising Muslim and how, if he was forced into it as a child by his stepdad, he actually did something wrong or had something to cover up.
You've actually provided evidence for his innocence in the rest of your quote.
Quote: Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
The refutation that the campaign changed it's tune, does not say how and provides nothing by itself.
Quote: The Tribune caught up with Obama's declared childhood friend, who now describes himself as only knowing Obama for a few months in 1970 when his family moved to the neighborhood. Adi said he was unsure about his recollections of Obama.
Quote: But the Tribune found Obama did attend mosque.
You and I could hang at a mosque or a temple or a synagogue too.
Quote: Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia
Quote: "occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers."
Quote: Daniel Pipes... actually implies Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim
Daniel has to prove what he implies.
Quote: Obama described the Muslim call to prayer as "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset."
The Times' Nicholos Kristof wrote Obama recited, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent," the opening lines of the Muslim call to prayer.
I still say God bless you when people sneeze. Next.
Quote: Some attention also has been paid to Obama's paternal side of the family
He's not them and they're not running for office.
Quote: Obama says he was raised by his Christian mother and repeatedly has labeled as "smears" several reports attempting to paint him as a Muslim.
Unless I missed something, you and Daniel Pipes still have your work ahead of you proving otherwise. This article is grasping at straws, at best. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 12 Sep 2008 03:26 |
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If he was able to live secretly as a Muslim while posing as a Christian despite living a life in the public eye, then he is so ridiculously clever we should elect him immediately. __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 12 Sep 2008 04:42 |
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Quote: then he is so ridiculously clever we should elect him immediately.
 __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 14 Sep 2008 00:33 |
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(taking a bow) __________________1 TIMOTHY 1
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
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| Posted: 15 Sep 2008 03:50 |
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I think the "Muslim" question is just a diversion from real issues.
The only reason the issue is there is because Hussein is Mr. Obama's middle name.
I would rather real issues dominate the campaigns (on both sides).
If one man's faith can be questioned, every man's faith can be questioned.
Faith is something between an individual and God.
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| Posted: 15 Sep 2008 14:52 |
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Quote: I would rather real issues dominate the campaigns (on both sides).
Agreed. __________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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