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Political Discussion / Politics / President / Just the facts>factcheck.org

Posted:  12 Sep 2008 19:25
One of my subscriptions on YouTube suggested we should check our facts before making decisions. A pretty good suggestion. He points out factcheck.org. I checked it out.

I owe Governor Palin an apology, kinda sorta maybe.

I had accused her of being a book banner. Numerous times. Because censorship bothers me, especially in conjunction with religious views.

Here's what i found. There are several, but I'm sticking with the book banning for now. Check out the whole list at:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html

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False Internet claims and rumors fly about McCain's running mate.

In the summary:
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She did not demand that books be banned from the Wasilla library. Some of the books on a widely circulated list were not even in print at the time. The librarian has said Palin asked a "What if?" question, but the librarian continued in her job through most of Palin's first term.

Now the crucial part, the actual analysis.
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One accusation claims then-Mayor Palin threatened to fire Wasilla’s librarian for refusing to ban books from the town library. Some versions of the rumor come complete with a list of the books that Palin allegedly attempted to ban. Actually, Palin never asked that books be banned; no books were actually banned; and many of the books on the list that Palin supposedly wanted to censor weren't even in print at the time, proving that the list is a fabrication. The librarian was fired, but was told only that Palin felt she didn’t support her. She was re-hired the next day. The librarian never claimed that Palin threatened outright to fire her for refusing to ban books.

It’s true that Palin did raise the issue with Mary Ellen Emmons, Wasilla’s librarian, on at least two occasions, three in some versions. Emmons flatly stated her opposition each time. But, as the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman (Wasilla’s local paper) reported at the time, Palin asked general questions about what Emmons would say if Palin requested that a book be banned. According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "

Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda. Palin described her questions to Emmons as “rhetorical,” noting that her questions "were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city." Actually, true rhetorical questions have implied answers (e.g., “Who do you think you are?”), so Palin probably meant to describe her questions as hypothetical or theoretical. We can't read minds, so it is impossible for us to know whether or not Palin may actually have wanted to ban books from the library or whether she simply wanted to know how her new employees would respond to an instruction from their boss. It is worth noting that, in an update, the Frontiersman points out that no book was ever banned from the library’s shelves.

Palin initially requested Emmons’ resignation, along with those of Wasilla’s other department heads, in October 1996. Palin described the requests as a loyalty test and allowed all of them (except one, whose department she was eliminating) to retain their positions. But in January 1997, Palin fired Emmons, along with the police chief. According to the Chicago Tribune, Palin did not list censorship as a reason for Emmons’ firing, but said she didn’t feel she had Emmons’ support. The decision caused “a stir” in the small town, according to a newspaper account at the time. According to a widely circulated e-mail from Kilkenny, “city residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.”

As we’ve noted, Palin did not attempt to ban any library books. We don’t know if Emmons’ resistance to Palin’s questions about possible censorship had anything to do with Emmons’ firing. And we have no idea if the protests had any impact on Palin at all. There simply isn’t any evidence that we can find either way. Palin did re-hire Emmons the following day, saying that she now felt she had the librarian’s backing. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned.

So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken “from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board”? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as “Books banned at one time or another in the United States.”

Update, Sept. 9: We have revised this section dealing with accusations that Palin wanted to ban books from Wasilla's library to include more detail about what transpired at the time.

__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  12 Sep 2008 19:55
Let's see.

Palin herself admits she did in fact ask the librarian such questions. The questions in question:
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According to Emmons, Palin "was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library." Emmons reported that Palin pressed the issue, asking whether Emmons' position would change if residents were picketing the library. Wasilla resident Anne Kilkenny, who was at the meeting, corroborates Emmons' story, telling the Chicago Tribune that "Sarah said to Mary Ellen, 'What would your response be if I asked you to remove some books from the collection?' "

The factcheckers themselves say they can't tell why she asked the librarian such questions. I have a pretty good idea myself.

In '96 Palin ran a loyalty test(!)requesting resignations from several of the department heads, including the librarian in question. wtf? Questionable leadership right there. If someone can can actually justify this, I'd be very interested in hearing it.

In any case, Palin did indeed fire this librarian and the Police Chief to boot, for 'lack of support'. Tell me I'm wrong here, but wouldn't lack of support immediately translate into 'they were talking bad about me so I had to shut them up'? That would mean she succeeded in censoring after all, wouldn't it? I could be very wrong-show me.

In any case, the librarian did get her job back the very next day. No harm done right? Let's see why:
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The decision caused “a stir” in the small town, according to a newspaper account at the time. According to a widely circulated e-mail from Kilkenny, “city residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin’s attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter.”


They assert that Palin did not try to actually ban books and therefore did not actually have them banned. That's great. One thing though-why go through all of that with the librarian if that wasn't her intent in the first place?

As for that list of books, I don't think such a list would exist. If Palin had only asked 'what if' questions and bullied the librarian around, not actually getting any books removed, there would be no need of a list. Such a list would have to be 'for consideration' or 'successfully removed'. It never reached this level. The list seems to me to be a strawman.

So, Governor Palin, if you read this, I apologize for calling you a book banner. I didn't know you were just unsuccessful in your attempts. Let's try some positive spin and say you think outside the box. Unfortunately, the box happens to be Constitutionally guaranteed free speech.

"McCain/Palin in '08-worse than we thought at first glance"
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted:  13 Sep 2008 21:15
Question: are there any limits in your mind of the type of books that a government funded library should have?

Should they have religious books since you hate that kind of thing? Sounds smarty pants, but I don't mean it to be. Of course religious books wouldn't bother me per say.

Or how about books on how to build nuclear bombs? Seriously, of course that should bother anyone.

Surely there are circumstances where some books shouldn't be allowed, and if the answer is yes then perhaps the Mayor or other officials might be doing their duty to inquire on the matter.

Of course I doubt there are books on how to be a terrorist, but you never know with liberal libraries these days, and I ain't kidding.
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Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted:  13 Sep 2008 21:49
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are there any limits in your mind of the type of books that a government funded library should have?

Secular house rules.

To ban religious books would be against the rules.

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how about books on how to build nuclear bombs?

Quicker to look up online. The materials are another story.

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I doubt there are books on how to be a terrorist,

Also easier online. Pick a cause.

You won't have to worry about libraries much longer in any case. Those are going to disappear like brick and mortar music or video stores. Sign of the times.

I only brought this subject up as evidence of how she does things, for better or worse.
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles

And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles