You're saying(without evidence of what was actually said) that he doesn't give specific ideas, when McCain is clearly more consistently guilty of this.
Quote: McCain hasn't said heaps
That's actually most of what he's offered so far. Heaps.
Quote: Basically McCain said a group should be started to watch these large companies
Basically that's the 'more government' you supposedly don't want. It's called a committee and they usually accomplish nothing.
Quote: the whole republican platform basically.
The 'maverick' is trying to get elected, not the whole party.
Quote: I'll leave it up to you to visit McCain's website on that.
Been there, done that. Even started posting issues and proposals by both sides-to which you gave the same empty response of 'you like him better'. So, as it stands, he has nothing to offer as far as 'specific ideas' on anything. I'll leave it back to you to prove different. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 21 Sep 2008 01:17
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Just for a bit of focus, I present to you the former Comptroller of US Accountability.(top accountant)
Posted August 26, 2007.
Posted February 21, 2008.
August 19, 2008.
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 21 Sep 2008 19:56 Last Edited By: Tim
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Quote: So, as it stands, he has nothing to offer as far as 'specific ideas' on anything. I'll leave it back to you to prove different.
It's simple I like McCain's voting record better than Obama's.
Just take abortion.
Not a perfect voting record, but here's McCain's
# Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
# Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
# Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
# Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
# Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
# Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
# Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
# Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
# Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
# Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
# Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
# Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
# Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
# Rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion. (Dec 2006)
# Prohibit transporting minors across state lines for abortion. (Jan 2008)
Civil Rights - again not 100 in agreement necessarily but
# Ban on same-sex marriage is unRepublican; leave it to states. (Nov 2006)
# Voted YES on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
# Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
# Voted NO on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
# Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
# Voted NO on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
# Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
# Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
# Voted YES on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
# Voted NO on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
# Voted YES on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
# Voted YES on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)
# Supports anti-flag desecration amendment. (Mar 2001)
# Require 90 day delay for compliance before ADA lawsuits. (May 2002)
# Limit interstate class-action lawsuits to federal courts . (May 2002)
# Rated 0% by the ACLU, indicating an anti-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
# Rated 33% by the HRC, indicating a mixed record on gay rights. (Dec 2006)
# Rated 7% by the NAACP, indicating an anti-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
school
# Unrestricted block grants--let states decide spending. (Feb 2000)
# Voted NO on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
# Voted NO on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
# Voted NO on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
# Voted NO on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
# Voted NO on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
# Voted NO on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
# Voted YES on declaring memorial prayers and religious symbols OK at schools. (May 1999)
# Voted YES on allowing more flexibility in federal school rules. (Mar 1999)
# Voted YES on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
# Voted YES on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
# Voted YES on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
# Voted YES on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul 1994)
# Voted NO on national education standards. (Feb 1994)
# Focus educational resources to help those with greatest need. (Jul 2001)
# Require state standards, regular assessments, and sanctions. (Jul 2001)
# Support Ed-Flex: more flexibility if more accountable. (Jul 2001)
# Rated 45% by the NEA, indicating a mixed record on public education. (Dec 2003)
energy
# GovWatch: Yes, his cap-and-trade bill is mandatory. (Jun 2008)
# Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
# Voted NO on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
# Voted NO on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
# Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
# Voted NO on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
# Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 2003)
# Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 2003)
# Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
# Voted NO on terminating CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
# Voted YES on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
# Voted YES on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
# Voted YES on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
# Voted NO on do not require ethanol in gasoline. (Aug 1994)
# Sponsored bill for greenhouse gas tradeable allowances. (Feb 2005)
# Rated 17% by the CAF, indicating opposition to energy independence. (Dec 2006)
# Gas tax holiday for the summer. (Apr 2008)
# Supports immediate reductions in greenhouse gases. (Sep 1998)
source: http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm
Now compare to Obama
# Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
# Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
# Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
# Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
# Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
# Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
# Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
# Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
# Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)
# Strengthen the Americans with Disabilities Act. (Aug 2007)
# Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
# Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
# Ending racial profiling is part of fight for justice. (Jan 2001)
# Sponsored bill for special-needs evacuation plans. (Sep 2005)
# Sponsored bill for a Rosa Parks commemorative postage stamp. (Dec 2005)
# Rated 89% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
# Rated 100% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
# Provide benefits to domestic partners of Federal employees. (Dec 2007)
# Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
# Reinforce anti-discrimination and equal-pay requirements. (Jan 2
# First Senate bill: increase Pell Grant from $4,050 to $5,100. (Aug 2007)
# Sponsored legislations that recruit and reward good teachers. (Sep 2004)
# Voted YES on $52M for "21st century community learning centers". (Oct 2005)
# Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
# Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
energy
# Passed tax credit for installing E85 ethanol at gas stations. (Feb 2008)
# Sponsored legislations that improve energy efficiency. (Sep 2004)
# Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
# Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal. (Jun 2007)
# Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning. (May 2007)
# Voted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR. (Nov 2005)
# Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas. (Oct 2005)
# Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%). (Jun 2005)
# Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
# Sponsored bill for tax credit for providing 85% ethanol gas. (Apr 2005)
# Sponsored bill to notify public when nuclear releases occur. (Mar 2006)
# Sponsored bill raising CAFE by a 4% per year until 2018. (Jul 2006)
# Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence. (Dec 2006)
# Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness. (Nov 2007)
# Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025. (Jan 2007)
# Let states define stricter-than-federal emission standards. (Jan 2008)
# FactCheck: Yes, Obama cast 130 "present" votes in IL Senate. (Jan 2008)
# Voted YES on granting the District of Columbia a seat in Congress. (Sep 2007)
# Voted NO on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
# Voted YES on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
# Election reform is #1 priority to prevent disenfranchisement. (Jan 2001)
# Sponsored bill criminalizing deceptive info about elections. (Nov 2005)
# Sponsored resolution rejecting photo ID for voting. (Sep 2005)
# Sponsored bill to post earmarks on the Internet. (Jan 2006)
# Prohibit voter intimidation in federal elections. (Mar 2007)
# Prohibit 'voter caging' which intimidates minority voting. (Nov 2007)
# No need to mandate coverage; just let people afford it. (Jul 2007)
# Voted NO on means-testing to determine Medicare Part D premium. (Mar 2008)
# Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
# Voted YES on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)
# Voted YES on increasing Medicaid rebate for producing generics. (Nov 2005)
# Voted YES on negotiating bulk purchases for Medicare prescription drug. (Mar 2005)
# Increase funding for AIDS treatment & prevention. (Jan 2001)
# More funding for Rx benefits, community health, CHIPs. (Jan 2001)
# Improve services for people with autism & their families. (Apr 2007)
# Preserve access to Medicaid & SCHIP during economic downturn. (Apr 2008)
Now if you agree more with Obama's voting record then by all means vote for him, but I'm going for McCain because they can all talk all they want but in the end it only matters what they actually do. The best bet is to see what they have actually done and use that to make a decision. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 21 Sep 2008 20:13
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You quoted me asking about specific ideas and instead went back to the voting record. Why? Specific ideas should be a reference to where we're going, not so much about where we've been.
Quote: The best bet is to see what they have actually done and use that to make a decision.
People do this exact same thing saying he's going to be another term of Bush.
What's been done already has gotten us to where we are. Show me how this record will improve things in the future on any of the pressing issues we face. When you can't do this(seriously, not your fault, but you won't), get back to the part on what's he's supposed to be offering us from this point on.
*How will he improve our economy?
*What is his foreign policy that will keep us 'safe'?
*What is he offering on healthcare?
*What is he offering on education?
*When he speaks of 'tax cuts' and 'decreased spending', what do these actually mean to you and me?
There's so many more, but these are the vital ones. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 22 Sep 2008 15:34 Last Edited By: Tim
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My humble view is that the government can't really fix the healthcare system. At least not by money alone. A few common sense initiatives here and there is about it.
As you've outlined already we are way in debt. The only logical answer for America right now is to stop trying to be everything to everybody, and only do what a government is supposed to do which is defend and make roads. Seriously something has to give. We can't do everything at least not all at once anyway.
We need to get out of debt before we ever start working on anything else.
McCain has promised to spend a lot less than Obama, and by Obama's own rhetoric we know he's going to be a huge spender. Only we also know he'll have to borrow to do it. Probably more money from China.
The only government spending in the general populace that I can see is justifiable is spending that creates a lot of jobs that will put money back into the economy. The problem with the government is they always spend 20 dollars to get back 5. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 22 Sep 2008 15:52
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Quote: My humble view
Not to be mean or ignore what you're saying Tim, but what's McCain offering? This was supposed to be about specific ideas.
Quote: only do what a government is supposed to do
We're gonna be tackling this shortly.
Quote: McCain has promised to...
I remember Bush I saying 'no new taxes' like a mantra. Everyone cheered for literally nothing. McCain's promise is just as worthless here. He has to show how he plans to spend, then we compare his proposed budget with Obama's. Just saying he's going to spend less means nothing. These claims are not specific ideas and more directly are certainly not plans of action or cures of any sort. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 23 Sep 2008 17:17
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Well in comparison all Obama basically says is that he will spend more, oh and he will fix everything in the known universe.
He doesn't say how exactly only that Bush is McCain over and over again to the point of nausea. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 23 Sep 2008 21:12
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Quote: Well in comparison
I would not hold you responsible for not being able to provide any of McCain's 'specific ideas'. Why exactly are you doing everything you can to not admit that he is not offering any?
Quote: He doesn't say how exactly only that Bush is McCain
McCain's voting record. The same one you want to point to. I don't undertand the fascination for either of you. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 24 Sep 2008 15:26
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And yet I point out again that Obama has made some of his largest points to sound more like Bush than McCain ever has.
Faith initiative, you remember that one?
Tax rebates ring a bell?
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2008 16:06
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You're still trying to get around McCain not offering specific ideas by pointing at Obama. Point back at McCain and show what he's going to do if he gets the job.
Quote: As far as what McCain plans on doing here's his site's issues section.
I pointed you here first, remember? I started listing what was on each of their sites to compare them side by side for education and healthcare. Since nobody was answering them, I decided to stop wasting my time with the effort.
You're the one advocating him, you point out his plans and policies.
Quote: Faith initiative, you remember that one?
Hate them. They're both going to use them, no doubt.
Quote: Tax rebates ring a bell?
Based strictly on timing, hate these too right now. Unfortunately, they're both offering them to different groups.
Neither one is better on these topics Tim. Please go back to the positives of what McCain plans to do, if you can find any. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 24 Sep 2008 20:27
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Don't you recall me bringing up McCain's energy proposals like creating more nuclear power plants, more oil drilling. There's two things off the top of my head.
Not accepting pork barrel spending is another one. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 24 Sep 2008 20:48
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Quote: creating more nuclear power plants
One place I really agree with him and not Obama, just that he needs to see what the market and technology will really allow in that time frame.
Quote: more oil drilling.
Grabbing up more land instead of having to use what they own the rights to already is nothing new, and not a solution for anyone but his oil interest panel of advisors.
Quote: Not accepting pork barrel spending
Riddle me this. How would you know the difference between his keeping this promise or not? That's all this really is, a promise(an empty one to me). It's not a 'plan' and we have no way of keeping him honest on it that I can foresee. I could be wrong, show me. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 25 Sep 2008 14:55
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Let me respond by saying anything a politician says cannot be proven regardless of how detailed it sounds or doesn't sound.
I like McCain's easy lay on the table answers. By the time Obama gets done yapping I don't even remember what the question was. __________________
Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
Posted: 25 Sep 2008 15:21
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Quote: I like McCain's easy lay on the table answers.
So he has no specific ideas. Thanks. __________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 25 Sep 2008 18:22
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Join Date: Aug 2007
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
Posted: 25 Sep 2008 18:24
Registered User
Posts: 4725
Join Date: Aug 2007
__________________
But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
