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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 21:17 Last Edited By: pakratmak |
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Your defense is not only still pointless but getting worse and worse the more you continue Tim.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 22:55 |
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Then you've forgotten posting pics of yourself in the past like the one of you in front of the Superman photo thing. Good memory Tim.
By now you've realized you made a mistake--so what I said before still remains--you came to an absurd conclusion when you said I was a racist without knowing that I myself am not black.
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I would guess after being dead for over a year, a pasty grey with splotches of white and green. If he rises from the dead he could be Captain Italy. Have I mentioned how bad you are at being clever? Just stop.
Ok fine. Don't answer the question. I'll answer it for you: He's white. Also, he has blonde hair and blue eyes. If you're going to make a character and call him Captain America, he has to BE Captain America. If you're going to keep the same suit, you have to keep the same appearance too.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 22:56 |
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Then you've forgotten posting pics of yourself in the past like the one of you in front of the Superman photo thing. Good memory Tim.
By now you've realized you made a mistake--so what I said before still remains--you came to an absurd conclusion when you said I was a racist without knowing that I myself am not black.
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I would guess after being dead for over a year, a pasty grey with splotches of white and green. If he rises from the dead he could be Captain Italy. Have I mentioned how bad you are at being clever? Just stop.
Ok fine. Don't answer the question. I'll answer it for you: He's white. Also, he has blonde hair and blue eyes. If you're going to make a character and call him Captain America, he has to BE Captain America. If you're going to keep the same suit, you have to keep the same appearance too.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 23:25 |
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The character belongs to Marvel and they can do whatever they like with it. It's not up to you or me.
Tim is caucasian.
My opinion still holds on your statements.
Full stop.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 01:41 Last Edited By: Tim |
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Steve we can't win.
My preacher told a story about a kid that was told to sit down. He refused. The parent made him sit down, and even though the kid obviously lost the argument, he told his parent "I'm still standing on the inside"
Even if pak or any other liberal believed that we won an argument they would never admit it. Only once in a blue moon would such a thing happen.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 02:11 |
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Cry me a river. What did you think you were winning here?
Out of all the times you've had your argument defeated or have just been proven flat out wrong, I have no recollection of an admittance or an apology from you, ever.
At best, when cornered or provided evidence contrary to your views, you change the topic.
(by the way, the kid should have said "I'm still standing on the inside")
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 03:47 |
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Steve we can't win.
I guess so.
Pak did come to an absurd conclusion about me--and I just wanted to see if he would actually admit he made a mistake. But just like a liberal he won't. I even proved it was absurd. He said I was being racist against blacks, without even knowing that I am not black. Notice he only commented on your race, Tim, not mine. Again, my opinion on liberals has been reinforced. They can never admit a mistake.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 04:06 |
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Let's see. I said your statement was either racist, naive or selfish. Where was I wrong exactly on this pointless platform of yours Steve?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 04:18 |
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You included racist. That's the issue at hand here. Since I never even indicated my race, it is foolish to accuse me of that.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 06:38 Last Edited By: GOParty |
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I said your statement was either racist, naive or selfish.
Well then pak, he should have left you to say it.
Steve and Tim, who cares if you can't win? Then someone who comes after you can take up the mantle, and maybe they can win for us! That's President Bush's way, and that's always been the American way: FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!
GOParty
__________________Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain. And most fools do! - Benjamin Franklin  |
| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 06:54 |
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You included racist. That's the issue at hand here. Since I never even indicated my race, it is foolish to accuse me of that.
I'm still including it. The games you're playing almost assure me of it.
I can't think of a single reason for a black man to have an issue with a black Captain America. Seems to me they might even be proud of the possibility. I'll ask around.
GOParty-you're an instigator and a troll. Go screw.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 08:11 |
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Jesus was black. Thug life.
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 13:00 |
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They can never admit a mistake. Actually, I think I've apologized a few times for being wrong. I've never heard YOU guys apologize. In fact, I don't believe you even accepted my apology. Boy, talk about opinions being reinforced.
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 16:28 |
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(by the way, the kid should have said "I'm still standing on the inside") I stand corrected. See I admit when I'm wrong. Now it's your turn.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 16:37 |
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Let's for the record talk about real racism here.
It's been the liberal socialist policies that have broken up black families and caused black men to seek welfare rather than seek to better themselves. Whether it was done with the right spirit or not in the end the welfare state created a dependence on government that has desperately hurt black families over the years.
And in terms of dividing Americans. Nothing could work harder at it than liberal affirmative action. You can't say we are equal and then promote someone ahead of another person based on their skin color.
That's a heck of a lot more racist than whether or not one has the opinion a comic character should stay true to it's original source material.
The truth of the matter is liberalism is the greatest racist threat America has ever faced. Instead of healing relations between the races it creates more hate and division. Let's face it. Liberalism has to have racism in order to survive. You create racist anger and hatred so you can then have something to claim to oppose.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 09 Oct 2008 19:01 |
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You're entitled to your opinions Tim, however much anyone else disagrees with them. I do love how a simple discussion becomes your platform against democrats and liberals and commies and socialists every single time.
I'll respond to your post right there with the same logic you used previously. Since Obama is the most liberal senator out there and he's black, liberals and liberalism can't be racist. Now go ahead and point out how rediculous that was.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 10 Oct 2008 12:24 |
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Actually, Jesus was Chinese. His last name was Hong. Jesus Hong. Says he has no idea where people are getting Christ from.
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| Posted: 10 Oct 2008 16:09 |
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Since Obama is the most liberal senator out there and he's black, liberals and liberalism can't be racist. Now go ahead and point out how rediculous that was.
Communism like liberalism hurts and destroys those under it. Whether you call it racism or just plain tyranny it doesn't really matter the results are the same. Labels don't take away the fact that liberal policies have destroyed many black and white families across this nation making generations of slaves to the government.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 10 Oct 2008 20:30 |
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Communism like liberalism hurts and destroys those under it. Whether you call it racism or just plain tyranny it doesn't really matter the results are the same. Labels don't take away the fact that liberal policies have destroyed many black and white families across this nation making generations of slaves to the government.
Great.
Now what about answering this:
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Since Obama is the most liberal senator out there and he's black, liberals and liberalism can't be racist. Now go ahead and point out how rediculous that was.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 12 Oct 2008 18:19 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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I can't think of a single reason for a black man to have an issue with a black Captain America. Seems to me they might even be proud of the possibility. I'll ask around.
Come on, Pak. You're being foolish again. Defending your point by suggesting that no black man wouuld oppose the idea of a black Captain America. I pulled this post from Comic Book Movie:
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I read on IGN that reportedly Will Smith has been eyed for the role of Captain America. Speaking as a black man, I kinda want to puke.
First, this smacks of executive meddling. Some of the higher-ups probably believe that just because someone of color is in the movie that it is a ticket to lock in that demographic of moviegoers. If anything, Catwoman should have disproved that.
Second, updates are updates, but STEVE ROGERS CANNOT BE UPDATED. That's the whole point. He is a sentinel of a bygone era. The only modern fish-out-of-water story more extreme is perhaps Gargoyles. This is the whole basis of Cap- a patriot in an era where at times, patriotism can be little more than a buzz-word. He is a symbol. Where Batman is a force of dark justice, Cap is a sentinel of light as bright as the gleam of his shield. A black man in that era CANNOT have had the same experience, the same optimism, because the era would not allow it, and to pretend otherwise is to mock history and spit in the blood of those who bled and died to change it. Will Smith knows this. He was offered the part of Superman but turned it down out of respect for the legacy of the character and the fans. This would be much worse. Nothing to do with his talent (he's one of my favorites, actually) but he truly does not fit the role of Steve Rogers.
Also, the Kingpin argument does not play in this case. Michael Clarke Duncan was the only actor with the chops, size, and physical condition to play Fisk. The decision has its critics, but it is much more believable that a black man could rise to such status and influence in the modern day, than it is for a black man to have been chosen as the living symbol of liberty during World War II.
That should be enough to prove you made a mistake. But you still won't admit it will you? You only accused me of racism because the issue at hand was based on the color of someone's skin.
The fact stands: You accused me of racism against blacks without knowing that I am not black. Now think about it, Pak. Do you feel foolish now? You should. You see, liberals ALWAYS jump at the chance to accuse someone of racism.
Your stubborness to admit your mistakes remind me very much of Obama and the surge.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 12 Oct 2008 19:21 |
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Since Obama is the most liberal senator out there and he's black, liberals and liberalism can't be racist. Now go ahead and point out how rediculous that was. I don't care if you call it racist or communistic. It still has the same effects on black families. I guess it would be the same as one black gang banger shooting an innocent black kid on his way to school.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 12 Oct 2008 22:44 |
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That should be enough to prove you made a mistake.
That black man has a problem with it and I hadn't considered his view in making my one statement. Wow, you got me. I said I couldn't think of one and you produced one. Great job Steve. We keep getting further and further away from what we were originally talking about. This doesn't change my original reply to your original statement one bit as it doesn't defend your original statement one bit.
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I don't care if you call it racist or communistic.
Still avoiding and deflecting Tim. You're unable or unwilling to address your own logic?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 05:40 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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What do you think of Captain America's suit, Pak? Should it be changed?
(This question is relevant, although it may not seem so).
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 06:03 |
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I don't know about should, but it's certainly allowable. Depends on the story.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 06:04 |
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Okay. Are you a fan of Captain America, Pak?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 06:08 |
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Now I'll ask something related(since I've been waiting for it to get back to basics but won't seem to).
Where did you get the idea they were making your namesake Steve Rogers black, instead of any individual who could become the Captain America character as you originally posted? Not that they can't as this would depend on the story as well, just that you guys made it about a black Steve instead of a black Cap.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 06:13 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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He's got to be Steve Rogers man. Steve Rogers is the man with the ideals, and Captain America is the one with the fighting skills. Also, when I watch the film, I want to see Steve Rogers/Captain America. Not just some guy wearing his suit. Remember, Rogers is the real, original identity.
You didn't answer my question. Please do.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 06:28 |
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That's weird-part of my reply disappeared before I asked my question there.
You can change the suit if the story allows for it, not that it necessarily should be changed, but it's certainly allowable.
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He's got to be Steve Rogers man.
Here's the thing. I'm being as gentle as I can here. Steve Rogers, for all intents and purposes, at least for the moment, is dead. He may be resurrected later, or some silly story element may suggest he never took the bullet in the first place, but for right now, he is dead. You have Bucky in the suit at the moment. They teased us(horribly) with Frank Castle taking the role for a moment. They could bring back Nomad for whatever reason too(as much as I liked that character, I honestly hope they don't but it's always a possibility unfortunately).
Keeping all that in mind, why would it not even be conceivable that Sam puts aside the Falcon persona for the stars n stripes? I'm gonna risk giving you cardiac arrest here, but what about a woman possibly becoming the Sentinel of Liberty?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 06:38 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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but what about a woman possibly becoming the Sentinel of Liberty?
I'm choking over here, just so you know.
Bucky may be wearing the suit, but to me, he'll never be Captain America. It takes more than just a costume and a shield to call yourself Captain America.
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Sam puts aside the Falcon persona for the stars n stripes?
I like the Falcon, don't get me wrong, but he's not Captain America.
I remember hearing that Clint Barton was thinking about taking over as Cap at one point. That would not have been so bad. He's the only guy who could have pulled it off, I think.
Why aren't you answering my question? You're keeping me from continuing:
Are you a fan of Captain America?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 13 Oct 2008 07:08 |
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Are you a fan of Captain America?
He's always been on the periphery of my comic reading-not one of my top favorites though, no.
I just picked up my very first Cap comic recently though, as spockman had mentioned something about Ed Brubaker's writing and I saw a copy at 7-11. It's issue 41 and I have to say I'm not terribly impressed by the story. There's a fake Steve and the Skull is apparently someone else...kinda blah. This didn't grab me like(for instance) when Steve was talking to Spidey about his favorite Mark Twain speech during Civil War(you really should read that-ask Tim). I do understand what you mean by the character of Steve Rogers being iconic, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of someone else being great in a different way, yes, in that costume, as the Captain-a different Captain as necessary.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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