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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 03:09 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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This may not even be an issue I should be posting on this site, but it does have to do with Barack Obama, so it is kind of political:
According to Comic Book Movie, Stan Lee has hinted that Will Smith may end up playing Captain America in 2011 if Obama gets elected. He said, "I would love us to do something with Will Smith. It would be a real leap to make Captain America black…then again, I don’t know. It might be a really smart thing. If Barack Obama becomes president, who knows… suddenly a lot of our characters will be black.”
I've just got to say: THAT IS SO STUPID! We don't need a black Cap just cause we may end up with a black president! Comic books are one area that politics should stay out of!
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 05:49 |
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That is so stupid Why? What difference would it make? They made Nick Fury black. And he's better than he's ever been.Quote:
Comic books are one area that politics should stay out of! Why? It makes for better stories. Stick with the kiddie comics and the silver age stuff if you don't like it. Captain America is one of the better titles out there right now and Ed Brubakker has injected alot of political stuff in it. Quote:
suddenly alot of our characters will be black You seemed very threatened by this. Don't get your panties in a bunch. It'll never happen.
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 11:26 |
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One of the few saving graces of the Daredevil film was the Kingpin, a black version.
As for politics in comics; without such involvement, we would never have gotten a single X-Men comic, or a single Cap comic for that matter.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 13:28 |
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I don't think you understand, Pak. Cap's my hero. Where do you think my name comes from? I don't want him to be changed at all. He was white in 1941, he should be white in 2011. There are some things that just should not be changed. Also, I could never see Will Smith as Captain America. Never.
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They made Nick Fury black. And he's better than he's ever been.
I saw him in the Iron Man movie. Although I expect Samuel L. Jackson to play an excellent version of Nick Fury, he won't be the same Nick Fury from the original comics.
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What difference would it make?
Actually, if you think about it, it would make a difference. If Steve Rogers was black, growing up in the Roaring Twenties and the Great Depression, where blacks were strongly discriminated against, would affect his character. A black Cap would be much different than a white Cap.
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You seemed very threatened by this. Don't get your panties in a bunch. It'll never happen.
I was more threatened by the part about Will Smith as Cap...but I do fear that some of my other favorite characters like Hawkeye might get changed like this when it comes time for their movies to come out. They've already done it to Fury, as you've pointed out, so its very possible they will continue to do it.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 13:34 |
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and the silver age stuff if you don't like it
That's what I read.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 15:37 |
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Captain America shouldn't be black because that would change the character completely. I didn't care that they changed the Kingpin to a black guy, and I'll live with Nick Fury since there is at least a black comic book version, but to make the first major motion picture of a main marvel hero like Cap just so you can hire Will Smith is stupid.
If you make the character black especially during WW2 you completely change the dynamics of the entire story. Sure in of and by itself that interesting but long time Captain America fans want the guy they've been reading about all these years to come to life. Besides one superhero for Will Smith is plenty.
Please don't disagree with me just because I'm a conservative because this goes beyond politics to just dumb artistic direction.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 20:18 |
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If Steve Rogers was black, growing up in the Roaring Twenties and the Great Depression, where blacks were strongly discriminated against, would affect his character.
A more likely candidate for an untested serum than to 'waste' it on a white guy or risk hurting one of them, based on the times, as you've pointed out.
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Cap's my hero.
Then it was pretty silly to say politics don't belong in comics, yes? 
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but long time Captain America fans want the guy they've been reading about all these years
I would think the story was the most important thing. It might make it worse, or better or really not affect it at all.
How about Will Smith as the Falcon instead then?
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Please don't disagree with me just because I'm a conservative
I disagree with your sentiments as they're possibly either selfish, naive or racist, not that you're a conservative.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 03 Oct 2008 23:33 |
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would think the story was the most important thing.
No the character is the most important thing. That's who the people are going to see.
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How about Will Smith as the Falcon instead then?
No way! The best guy for the Falcon that I can think of would be the dude that played Hector on The Unit.
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Then it was pretty silly to say politics don't belong in comics, yes?
What does my statement "Cap's my hero" have to do with politics?
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A more likely candidate for an untested serum than to 'waste' it on a white guy or risk hurting one of them, based on the times, as you've pointed out.
Maybe they'd be more willing to use it on a black guy in 1941, but that one little thing shouldn't be reason enough to decide him as a black man. Besides, what's done is done. Don't mess with it. Leave Cap alone.
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I don't think you understand, Pak.
I see that I made a mistake here. It was Spockman I was addressing here, not Pak. Sorry about that.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 00:00 |
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I disagree with your sentiments as they're possibly either selfish, naive or racist Ok mr. liberal how about a movie with Nicolas Cage as Luke Cage then? That would work wouldn't it? Not.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 00:28 |
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I disagree with your sentiments as they're possibly either selfish, naive or racist,
So which of those are you accusing us of then, Pak? Racism?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 00:50 |
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I guess I'm the racist. Since we refuse to accept the great obama as the chosen one we must be a bunch of racist, and why else would we not want Captain America to be black?
You know if they ever make a movie about me, I hope Will Smith plays my part.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 02:29 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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Yeah we're racists cause we pick a white man over a black man for Captain America, even though its been that way for 70 years--but the people who choose a black man over a white man and break a 70-year-old tradition are NOT racists. That seems to be the way it works. Right?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 12:07 |
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No the character is the most important thing.
They could stare at a picture for that. That's not what people go to movies for.
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What does my statement "Cap's my hero" have to do with politics?
What does this reply have to do with my reply?
The character is wrapped in politics, created by politics.
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Ok mr. liberal how about a movie with Nicolas Cage as Luke Cage then?
Tim, you're really bad at sniper attacks. Just be you.
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So which of those are you accusing us of then, Pak? Racism?
When you say 'don't make my favorite character black', yes, it's exactly what I said: possibly selfish, possibly naive, or possibly racist.
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I guess I'm the racist.
You should seek help for this. Constantly playing the hurt feelings card may cause permanent damage.
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we're racists cause we pick a white man over a black man for Captain America
Same thing I just said to Tim about the hurt feelings card goes for you too Steve.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 18:48 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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The character is wrapped in politics, created by politics.
So what?! I don't want modern politics to interfere with his character.
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When you say 'don't make my favorite character black',
Even if he's been white for seventy years?
I heard recently that Will Smith was offered the Superman role, but he turned it down. Now if he had accepted it, would you be upset about it?
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Same thing I just said to Tim about the hurt feelings card goes for you too Steve.
You can hurl insults at us as much as you want, I can care less. But you obviously still don't get it. So let me say it again, and maybe you'll understand the second time around:
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Yeah we're racists cause we pick a white man over a black man for Captain America, even though its been that way for 70 years--but the people who choose a black man over a white man and break a 70-year-old tradition are NOT racists.
Now tell me: Is that not true?
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They could stare at a picture for that.
Not if they want to see him in action.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 04 Oct 2008 21:15 |
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I don't want modern politics to interfere with his character.
That's fine.
On that note, what did you think of the Civil War storyline?
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Now if he had accepted it, would you be upset about it?
Nope. Not to me. Just another story told a different way. They can make every single Marvel or DC character black or an Eskimo or a Muslim, as long as they tell interesting stories.
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Is that not true?
Nope.
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Not if they want to see him in action.
Wanting to see him in action is not the same as just wanting to see the character. Without a story he has no reason to do anything.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 17:05 |
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On that note, what did you think of the Civil War storyline?
I never read it, but I know I don't like it. Especially the way it ended. I don't like the idea of heroes turning against each other either. In the days of the Silver Age, Captain America and Iron Man were good friends, and great allies.
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Nope.
Okay. Are you going to back that up?
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Nope. Not to me. Just another story told a different way.
Are you telling me you could really see Will Smith as Clark Kent?
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Wanting to see him in action is not the same as just wanting to see the character. Without a story he has no reason to do anything.
Well of course. When I went to watch the Lord of the Rings, I did it because I wanted to see a good interesting story. But when I went to see The Incredible Hulk, I did it because I'm a Hulk fan. I was going to see the Hulk, not whatever it was he was doing.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 20:46 |
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I never read it, but I know I don't like it.
This makes no sense.
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Are you going to back that up?
What needs elaboration?
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Will Smith as Clark Kent?
Not yet. With a good enough story, maybe.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 05 Oct 2008 21:05 |
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This makes no sense.
I know the basic idea of it. Even though I didn't read it, I've heard enough about it to understand what happened. And I don't like it.
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What needs elaboration?
Everything. It makes no sense that a person who wants a white man to represent a white character is a racist, and a person who wants a black man to represent a white character is NOT racist.
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 07:28 |
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stick with kiddie and silver age comics Yeah, sorry 'bout that. I was kind of in a rush when I wrote that. Silver Age comics were very political. I think comics have always been somewhat subversive. Lots of the early stories between Cap and The Falcon were set in Harlem and other poor ghettos and were about civil rights. Quote:
never have gotten a single X-Men comic No doubt. One of the earliest issues I have is X-men #14, the first appearance of the Sentinels. Very political stuff.Quote:
more likely candidate for an untested serum than to 'waste' it on a white guy In the Capt. America mythos, they did test it on blacks first. Without their permission and without even telling them what it was. Cap flipped when he found out. Hey Pak, have you read The Ultimates? Nick Fury was the original supersoldier in that universe. But he escaped because they were gonna kill him anyway. But the Gov't. recruited him 40 years later and all was forgiven.Quote:
what did you think of the Civil War storyline Amazing. Great story. It's what got me back into comics. Are you currently reading Cap?
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 12:09 |
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Spock:
I just found myself strapped for cash recently and don't normally get monthly books like I used to so very long ago. I did read the first issue of the Ultimates and never got any more. Considering your enthusiam there I might have to check out the TPB's for both the Ultimates and Cap(and catch up on New Avengers while I'm at it).
Steve:
I've already answered what you're trying to spin away. When you say you don't want a black Cap it sounds naive, selfish and/or racist. The more of an issue you wish to make of it, the more possible and plausible those assumptions seem. I have no way of knowing what's in your heart or your character as a real person to say anything about you except by judgment of what you post here and judgment of what you post here. Your words are what I'm responding to; an extension of you but not the whole of you. If there's anything I still have not explained, please feel free to ask.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 14:53 |
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Liberals tend to jump the gun with racist witch hunts at every possible occasion. The idea that when in doubt always always error on the side of the non-racist premise doesn't fly with me. If it's right, it's right. If it's wrong it's wrong. Trying to figure out what a man's internal motivations are should be left up to God.
And if I'm a racist I'm doing a terrible job at it. I'd love to know how much money I've spent at the theater already on Will Smith movies and DVDs. Not to mention how many Mr. T impressions I did as a kid. Who didn't think Mr. T was cool back in the day?
And like I said you wouldn't make Luke Cage white either. A character's race is part of the character's identity like any other aspect of their physical description. If you want a black Captain America that's fine, but personally I'd rather create a brand new character for that because I've been waiting a long time to see the original CA on the movie screen.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 06 Oct 2008 21:25 |
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Liberals tend to jump the gun with racist witch hunts at every possible occasion.
Has nothing to do with what I said but since you want to keep pushing the issue, I can only guess I was close to the mark in the first place. You just have to keep 'proving' your innocence when my comment about possible racism was not even to you.
You're really really really just proving my statement right the harder you fight it Tim. You might as well say you have a few friends that are black next.
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Trying to figure out what a man's internal motivations are should be left up to God.
Seriously? Because I'm going to quote you right here when you do it from now on, every time you do it from now on.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 07 Oct 2008 00:50 Last Edited By: Steve Rogers |
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I've already answered what you're trying to spin away. When you say you don't want a black Cap it sounds naive, selfish and/or racist. The more of an issue you wish to make of it, the more possible and plausible those assumptions seem. I have no way of knowing what's in your heart or your character as a real person to say anything about you except by judgment of what you post here and judgment of what you post here. Your words are what I'm responding to; an extension of you but not the whole of you. If there's anything I still have not explained, please feel free to ask.
No, you haven't answered it at all. You may judge a person as a racist based on certain obvious prejudiced remarks, but it is simply ridiculous to jump to that conclusion when I make the statement that I do not want a black actor like Will Smith to play the part of Captain America. You stil fail to respond to this statement, I'm assuming you can't. Maybe if I put it in different words you might get it?
Joe is a white man, and he wants a white man to represent Captain America, who is a white character. Bill is a black man, and he wants a black man to represent this same white character. Joe is a racist because he would rather stick with tradition and go with the white actor. Bill is not a racist, even though he wants to break tradition and choose a black actor--who looks nothing like Steve Rogers. But wait a minute...if we look at both subjects with the exact same logic, we must come up with the same conclusion for both Joe and Bill! So if we determine Joe is indeed a racist, Bill must be too. So if you're a guy of the same race of the actor you want, you're a racist. Now think about it seriously. Is that not how you have been looking at this entire situation?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 07 Oct 2008 11:43 |
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Maybe if I put it in different words you might get it?
You keep asking the same thing and you'll keep getting the same answer.
You said you don't want a black actor playing a character. Your statement sounds selfish, naive or racist to me. What are you not getting? What is not clear enough?
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Is that not how you have been looking at this entire situation?
Your day job is not as a lawyer is it?
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 07 Oct 2008 17:26 |
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So would it be racists to want only a black actor to play Luke Cage, pak?
Would it be racists to only want a white actor with a beard and top hat playing Abraham Lincoln?
On the other hand if you want to put white makeup on a black actor thinking only that actor can portray Steve Rogers as shown in the comics then have it, but it would be a lot easier just to get a white guy with blond hair.
I say this only because I know the next thing you'll throw at me for being hypocritical one day will be my acceptance of Jewish actors as Indians on F-troop. But I was really convinced they were Indians all these years.
Geez pak, I think your mission is to drive me insane with stupid arguments.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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| Posted: 07 Oct 2008 20:51 |
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I think your mission is to drive me insane with stupid arguments.
I responded to a post. You made it an argument. It was simple and straight forward and self contained-you made it a platform, just like the abortion thread. I get the notion this is more of the same avoidance of talking about actual issues or your sorry candidates. You've given plenty of dumb statements yourself and your insanity you can only blame yourself for.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 02:54 |
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You said you don't want a black actor playing a character. Your statement sounds selfish, naive or racist to me. What are you not getting? What is not clear enough?
You--just look all liberals--come to absurd conclusions--just like you're doing right now. You know, now that I think about it, it makes it even more absurd that you came to that conclusion about my supposed racism without even knowing that I myself am not black!
Let me ask you this question, Pak:
What color is Steve Rogers's skin?
__________________"If we ever forget that we're one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under."
- Ronald Reagan
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 12:04 |
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You keep making blanket assertions, avoiding questions and constantly poke at groups with your pointy little....stick. You're being moronic about this. Your candidates still suck and I'm very much over this convo.
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that I myself am not black!
Then you've forgotten posting pics of yourself in the past like the one of you in front of the Superman photo thing. Good memory Tim.
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What color is Steve Rogers's skin?
I would guess after being dead for over a year, a pasty grey with splotches of white and green. If he rises from the dead he could be Captain Italy. Have I mentioned how bad you are at being clever? Just stop.
__________________But the backdrops peel and the sets give way and the cast get eaten by the play, there's a murderer at the matinee, there are dead men in the aisles
And the patrons and the actors too are uncertain if the show is through and with sidelong looks await their cue, but the frozen mask just smiles
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| Posted: 08 Oct 2008 17:59 |
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Then you've forgotten posting pics of yourself in the past like the one of you in front of the Superman photo thing. Good memory Tim.
You still think Steve is me I guess. No I am not black, but who is to say I don't have an ancestor or two that isn't. I got Indians, Jews, Germans, and God only knows what else in my family tree. That's one reason why I think all this crap about racism is so stupid. Most of us are made up of almost every race anyway. If I were a racist I'd have to hate myself.
__________________Lucas McCain the Rifleman: A man doesn't run from a fight, Mark...but that doesn't mean you should go running *to* one, either.
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